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Old 11-20-2011, 05:24 PM   #21
TomFogarty
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Is it necessary to let it sit in the secondary for that long when adding Orval dregs, or could the same effect be achieved by letting it sit for 2-3 weeks then letting it condition in the bottle for another year or two? As much as I'd like to leave it in the secondary for a few extra months I'd like to have a few bottles to give away by Christmas time!

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Old 11-20-2011, 09:43 PM   #22
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The issue is if you have bottles that can take very high carbonation. Also it depends on what your current gravity is at the moment. If the gravity is already fairly low then it should be safe if you bottle in strong enough bottles. I'm brewing my take on a recipe inspired by orval in a month or two. I have saved up orval bottles and many champagne bottles to bottle this thing in for 4-5 volumes.

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Old 01-26-2012, 12:56 PM   #23
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Well I finally decided to brew this Orval inspired recipe. This is what will get cooked up on Friday.


Type: All Grain Date: 6/24/2011
Batch Size (fermenter): 7.50 gal Brewer: Adam Cole
Boil Size: 10.38 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Penrose Kettle (18Gal) and Cooler (13Gal)
End of Boil Volume 8.58 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 82.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 7.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 92.0 %
Fermentation: My Aging Profile Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3 lbs 8.0 oz Vienna Malt (Franco Belges) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 26.4 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (1.3 SRM) Grain 1 26.4 %
2 lbs 12.0 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 20.8 %
13.9 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.6 %
5.9 oz Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.8 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 7 15.7 IBUs
1.25 oz Serebrianka [3.50 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 6 12.7 IBUs
1 lbs 4.0 oz Belgian Candi Syrup Clear (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 9.4 %
1.2 pkg Bastogne Belgian Ale (White Labs #WLP510) [35.00 ml] Yeast 12 -
1.2 pkg Brett Blend #1 (East Coast Yeast #ECY04) [50.00 ml] Yeast 13 -
1 lbs Belgian Candi Syrup Amber (45.0 SRM) Sugar 9 7.6 %
1.50 oz Strisslespalt [2.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 4.6 IBUs
1.50 oz Serebrianka [3.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 6.4 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.1 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 %
Bitterness: 39.5 IBUs Calories: 32.0 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 8.7 SRM

I'm not entirely decided on how to mash this. I will likely do a pseudo decoction with two steps, no mash out just denature in the kettle. I'm thinking mash in at 148 let that go while I'm class. Then I'll come home and raise it up to 160 for a dextrinization step. Depending on FG I will decide on how much priming sugar to add when I bottle.

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Old 02-11-2012, 12:21 AM   #24
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Done and bottled up my friends. My OG ended up at 1.060 and my FG at bottling was 1.009. So because I finished up fermentation at 50F I figured for 1 vol retained by the beer, another two volumes worth of attenuation from the brett in the bottle, and I primed for 1.5 vol with sugar. So I should end up between 4.5 and 5 volumes in the bottles. I ended up having just enough bottles that were strong enough for this level of carbonation. I'll update as it develops in the bottle over time and builds carbonation. Booyah!

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Old 02-20-2012, 08:19 PM   #25
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I'm interested in giving this one a go at some point if it turns out well! When do you plan on trying it?

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Old 02-20-2012, 08:23 PM   #26
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I figure I'll give one a shot in about a month or so. I don't want to waste it when fresh that much since I'm looking for the brettier aged version. Who knows maybe it'll just be a great beer from the start and I'll drink a few here and there to see how it evolves. It's not a huge time investment to make a beer like this. It's more of a bottle investment because it took me a while to save up enough champagne heft bottles for this beer.

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Old 02-25-2012, 11:34 PM   #27
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Okay I prematurely opened a bottle tonight. The flavor of the recipe I brewed is OUTSTANDING as a non brett beer right now. Sure there's brett in there but it hasn't even had a chance to make its presence known. I don't know how much like a fresh Orval this is, but it is down right tasty. The carbonation is on the low side right now but that's okay because as the brett attenuates further in the bottle it will continue to climb.

The hops are what is really pleasing me right now. I think I really hit the hop flavor with the strisselspalt and serebrianka. I remember reading somewhere recently that they were using strisselspalt and since I had some on hand I used them. Plus I did a split dry hop between strisselspalt and stryian golding just before bottling. It's a great brew even if you decide to not do the brett.

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Old 03-01-2012, 04:23 AM   #28
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That's great news! I actually am in the process of getting a yeast bank started, and I think after we get a few other brews tested, i'll be doing this recipe! Thanks for keeping up to date, and I hope everything works out! Happy leap day!

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Old 03-01-2012, 05:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinghole View Post
Okay I prematurely opened a bottle tonight. The flavor of the recipe I brewed is OUTSTANDING as a non brett beer right now. Sure there's brett in there but it hasn't even had a chance to make its presence known. I don't know how much like a fresh Orval this is, but it is down right tasty. The carbonation is on the low side right now but that's okay because as the brett attenuates further in the bottle it will continue to climb.

The hops are what is really pleasing me right now. I think I really hit the hop flavor with the strisselspalt and serebrianka. I remember reading somewhere recently that they were using strisselspalt and since I had some on hand I used them. Plus I did a split dry hop between strisselspalt and stryian golding just before bottling. It's a great brew even if you decide to not do the brett.
keep us posted.. orval is one of my faves and if i were to brew a clone i'd start from your recipe... orval is reportedly bottled with brett but there's no reason you can't "secondary" with brett as i like to ignore bottles (i'm tired of putting bottles in my fridge to slow them down)... i'd go c.. or b at the most... not that much brett in it imo but it does have that woody/dry brett characteristic to it fo'sho... the 5 volumes is insane imo tho - no way it winds up there... but i think bottling at 1.5 with brett added is perfect... orval isn't high volume at all (unless the 1,000 bottles i've had have been off which i guess would be possible).... i'm curious as to where the carb finishes off and what brett strain you used... taste wise i think you're there from the looks of it.

with permission i'm going to steal this - i've got a vial of brett c waiting to be tossed in something and this looks like the perfect candidate..

i also have a wild brett strain saved right now that might be a good "local" orval... okay - just changed my mind... local/wild/orval clone coming up! been trying to find a place to use my wild yeast and this is it...
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:02 AM   #30
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For the brett I used Orval dredges. I have saved it up over time and just dumped it all in a week before bottling while it was lagering in the 40s.

Orval is certainly highly carbed if not 5 it's damn near. Brew Like a Monk has CO2 levels listed and lists Orval as 5.0 volumes and Duvel is at 4.25 according to the book. I have done quite a few saisons between 3 and 4 and Orval has more than them. There's a reason their bottle is three times heavier than a standard long neck. The only bottle out there heavier at a similar size is the 375ml champagne splits.

Mine might be a little darker and exactly a clone but it took all its inspiration from Orval that's for sure. I based my recipe on my tastes, other clone attempt recipes, and after reading on their website. If it's close enough to call a clone, thats cool, if not I don't care because it turned out to be a fantastic beer.

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