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Old 11-29-2011, 07:03 PM   #1
booherbg
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Default Operation Clone Lagunita's Undercover Investigation Shutdown Ale

Hi everyone. I love Lagunitas and I am very excited to see that they worked with the crew @ Can You Brew It to give cloned recipes of their IPA, Maximus IPA, Censored Ale, Brown Shugga, and Little Sumpin' Sumpin'. It is interesting to see what all of them have in common and what hops are used a lot. It is a life goal of mine to clone the beautiful beast that is the undercover investigation shutdown ale. With 9 batches under my belt, I'm ready to give it a go.


I want to clone their Undercover Investigation Shutdown Ale. It's probably my all time favorite beer of theirs and I'm surprised to see that it doesn't show up on any clone forums. I believe that the key to UCIVSA is hidden in a combination of the ingredients from their other beers. I think that by piecing together a recipe from their other beers we can get a good attempt at a starting position for a clone.

I've been putting some thought into this Undercover Investigation Shutdown Ale recipe and I think that I've done it some justice. Now it's just a matter of trying it out. Is anyone else up for it? I've got a weird setup (all grain or partial mash one-gallon no temperature control) so it'd be nice if someone else tried it out on a bigger setup with temperature control abilities.

Here's what I've gathered so far...
  • They use wheat in all their beers. That describes why their mouthfeel is so heavy (awesome) and may help mask their higher ABV beers. Wheat Malt is present in all of their clones. Little Sumpin' Sumpin' actually uses all wheat in addition to 2-row which I find interesting, but I don't see that in any other beers so I'll call that a unique property to sumpin' sumpin'.
  • They love huge hop combinations as well as heavy dry hopping and heavy late addition. They're known for their hop additions, and interestingly enough their IPA has a surprisinly low IBU of 45. So keep an eye on which hops they use a lot of: Centennial, Summit, Cascade, Wilamette, Nugget/Horizon, Liberty. I think all of those should be present, probably along with Simcoe and perhaps Amarillo.
  • They kick ass at making high gravity beers. Start with a known awesome high gravity beer (Brown Shugga) and see what should be modified
  • Their beers are known for having a crisp sweet kick on the swallow. That's what I have come to identify as their house flavor. I thought it was yeast (even when I toured the brewery it was alluded to that their yeast had something to do with it) but on CYBI it is claimed that they use off-the-shelf yeast like WPL002. So I'm saying now that it may be the high mash temperature in some of them. Their IPA is mashed at like 160!
  • Other favorites: Crystal 60 and Munich are present in most of the beers along with wheat malt. In fact if you look at Brown Shugga, Censored, their IPA, and Maximums they all have almost the same core ingredients: 2-row, Wheat, Munich, and Crystal 60. I think I'm on to something! Also the Maximus IPA has about the same IBU as UCISDA. Hell yeah.

And here's what I know about UCIVSDU. I have 2 left in my fridge, haven't cracked them open yet for this experiment:
  • Gravity of around 1.092 for an ABV of around 9.75%. Basically, very similar to Brown Shugga!
  • Estimated IBU of around 74IBU, (about double of the Censored ale, similar to Maximus IPA by some accounts)
  • Likely to contain 2-row, wheat malt, munich, and crystal 60L based on other recipes
  • SRM of 10-15 depending on source, same as Brown Shugga and Censored Ale
  • Tasting notes of fruit and pine (hops), burnt caramel, molasses, dark fruit, "barleywine"-like. (also like Brown Shugga)
  • Much more hop-heavy than Brown Shugga, but known for being well balanced and not hop-offensive. I'm thinking the 75IBU basicaly counters the alcohol (aka not a bitterness bomb) but the heavy late addition and dry hopping adds to the floral bouquette of the hop profile.

The Recipe
So here's what I'm thinking:
  • Take the grain bill of Brown Shugga. Remove the Brown Sugar, replace with another grain already in the bill to make up for the loss in gravity points. Perhaps Munich and/or Wheat malt?
  • Borrow the dry-hop timings and guidance of Little Sumpin' Sumpin because it's very intense
  • Borrow the hop bill from a combination of maximus IPA and Little Sumpin' Sumpin' while keeping an eye on the others (particularly brown shugga). Create a hybrid that is well bittered up to 75IBU, but has much of the aroma and taste hops that make their maximus so favored, but also some of the sweeter hops that likely make brown shugga known, when fresh, as a "hopped up imperial red ale".
  • I'd mash it warm, probably around 156 or 158F although I would need guidance here... considering that some call it a DIPA, it'd make sense to mimic the maximus mashing profile.

So, what does this all mean? I'm going to keep it simple, for now. This is what I did:
  1. Brown Shugga Malt profile. Removed Brown Sugar. Efficiency = 70%. Target higher efficiency or add more 2-row to get up to target OG of 1.095
  2. Maximus IPA Hops profile. Shaved off 90 minute hops and 45min Willamette (slightly) to bring IBU down to 80 from 110. Didn't touch late addition hops.
  3. Little Sumpin' Sumpin Dry Hop profile. This is actually the Maximus IPA dry hop profile with Amarillo, Chinook, and Columbus added.
  4. Standard WPL002 yeast
  5. Little Sumpin' Sumpin' Fermentation Schedule (similar to maximus): pitch at 62F, up to 65F after 36 hours, up to 70F after another 70F
  6. Mash is in the air. Brown Shugga: 155F, Little Sumpin: 150F, IPA: 160F, Maximus: 157F. Not sure which one to choose, but I'm leaning towards the Maximus 158F mash.

Here's the final recipe as it stands. Hopville . "Undercover Investigation Attempt" American Barleywine Recipe

I like this recipe because it is true to Lagunita's style, uses their hops schedule and dry-hop profile, utilizes wheat and all their strange hops, hits a target IBU and Gravity, uses the malt profile of Brown Shugga without brown sugar which matches with the tasting notes of Undercover Investigation Shutdown Ale as well as identifying with the monicker of being a "Barley-Wine", and uses the hop profile of Maximus IPA which is known as an "almost non-DIPA" and "much more balanced, fruity, and piney rather than in your face hop attack" which is exactly what I want out of the Undercover Investigation Shutdown Ale. Also the UCISDA is known as being a DIPA in some circles.


Update: Added corn sugar in place of brown sugar based on recommendation. Thanks!

7.27G pre-boil volume
5.5G post-boil volume

Target OG: 1.099 @ 70% Efficiency (I'll try for 1.100 - 1.105 since I get lower attenuation)
Target FG: 1.025 @ 75% Attenuation (Apparently this is very hard to do)
Target ABV: 9.9% ABV

IBU: ~80IBU
SRM: ~15

Malt Bill
--------
% LB OZ MALT OR FERMENTABLE
69% 16 0 American Two-row Pale
17% 3 13 Wheat Malt
5% 1 2 Crisp Crystal Malt 60L
4% 1 0 Munich Malt - 10L
3% 0 9.736 Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
1% 0 4.797 Crystal 100L
1% 0 3.668 Crystal 150L
23 1⅕

Hops (Grams)
------------
USE TIME GRAMS VARIETY FORM AA
boil 90 mins 3 Horizon pellet 12.0
boil 90 mins 10 Willamette pellet 5.5
boil 45 mins 18 Cascade pellet 5.5
boil 45 mins 18 Centennial pellet 10.0
boil 45 mins 18 Liberty pellet 4.0
boil 45 mins 30 Willamette pellet 5.5
boil 20 mins 39 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 18 Amarillo pellet 7.0
dry hop 7 days 25 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 25 Centennial pellet 10.0
dry hop 7 days 25 Chinook pellet 13.0
dry hop 7 days 15 Columbus pellet 15.4
dry hop 7 days 25 Simcoe pellet 13.0

Choose a mash profile:
Little Sumpin' Sumpin': 150F
Brown Shugga: 155F
Maximus IPA: 157F
IPA: 160F (yes, that's not a typo)
Mash-out 168F, Sparge 170F

Yeast: WPL002 (Maybe Safale US-04?)

Fermentation Temperatures:
Pitch @ 62F; 65F after 36 hours; 70F after 36 hours


Open Questions:
  1. What to mash at?
  2. If we assume lower attenuation than 75% (~68% likely), what grain to add to increase gravity so ABV comes out close to 10%? We did remove brown sugar but didn't replace it with anything. Add 2-row, wheat, munich, or one of the crystals?
  3. Would you modify the hop bill at all? What about malt bill?
  4. Does anyone have a more detailed hops or malt tasting description? The two bottles I have left are now aged which means the hops field has likely collapsed back down into the beer. Hell, maybe it's turning into a cousin of Brown Shugga, haha.

I would love to hear your thoughts and if you plan on brewing this. I only do one gallons at the time with partial mash, so I'll post converted recipes if anyone is interested.

This recipe makes me feel like this:

(I'm out of space. For Extract/Partial Mash and Extract + Steep, check a few comments down)
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Old 11-29-2011, 11:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booherbg View Post
This recipe makes me feel like this:
Your enthusiasm is getting me excited! Please post back with any updates if you decide to brew this
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:28 AM   #3
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Keep us posted!!!

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Old 11-30-2011, 04:27 AM   #4
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You could sub white sugar for brown sugar to get the % and help with attenuation

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Old 11-30-2011, 02:45 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by dawgmatic View Post
Your enthusiasm is getting me excited! Please post back with any updates if you decide to brew this
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwomp313 View Post
Keep us posted!!!
Will do! It won't be for a few weeks but thank you for the encouragement! Now that it is getting cooler, I should be able to ferment in the mid 60s which would be nice. I live next to Listermann's so getting the materials in small enough quantities for 1 gallon all grain batches isn't a problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by skeezerpleezer View Post
You could sub white sugar for brown sugar to get the % and help with attenuation
Great idea! Definitely something to think about considering that the Brown Sugar is only about 1% of the grain bill. Thanks for the tip!
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:06 PM   #6
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Here's a link to the partial mash + extract equivalent. Assumes that wheat is self-converting. Munich should mostly convert itself, but just in case enough 2-row is used to convert all crystal and munich. With the left-over enzyme action from the wheat it should be fine. To reduce cost, simply increase 2-row and decrease extract according to your set up. Also you could substitute wheat malt but I like mashing wheat plus it isn't clear always how much of a wheat extract is full wheat vs partially 2-row pale.

Hopville . "Undercover Investigation Attempt (Partial Mash)" American Barleywine Recipe

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Old 11-30-2011, 06:10 PM   #7
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An attempt at an extract + steep. All wheat and pale is extract. The crystal should still contribute to gravity since it is partially converted already, although I'm not sure how much it contributes. Munich does not contribute to anything but taste and color since it will not be mashed, so I gave it 0 gravity points. This will likely be darker than intended since pale extract is much darker.

Either way, this should work! Replaced 2-row with equivalent gravity extract. Replaced wheat with equivalent gravity extract. Assumes that wheat extract is 100% wheat. Adjust accordingly to what you can find. For example, if you can only find 60% wheat / 40% pale extract, calculate how much wheat extract you need to cover all the wheat needs, then subtract 40% of that amount from the pale extra bill since it will be covered by the pale in the wheat extract. Dig it?

Hopville . "Undercover Investigation Attempt (Extract + Steep)" American Barleywine Recipe

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Old 11-30-2011, 06:21 PM   #8
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I also love Lagunitas. If I was to pick my favorite brewery, it would definitely be them. I actually have never had their UCIVSA, as you call it, but have tried most of the others (at least the ones we can get in VA).

I don't really have much to add, other than sharing your enthusiasm. Maybe a few things to mention:

1) Lagunitas does use hop extract in some of their beers - don't be afraid to use it in place of some of the dry hopping if you think it will help

2) They use the 1968 yeast in the IPA - I've found that this makes my IPA clone truer to form than WLP 002 or US 05. Take that with a grain of salt, since I've never tasted what you are trying to clone.

3) Consider agitating the carboy with CO2 during dry hopping. They say they do this, and although they mention that the homebrewer can get the same effect by simply agitating the carboy, maybe the CO2 method makes a difference?

I am brewing their IPA clone again on Saturday - can't wait!

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Old 11-30-2011, 06:23 PM   #9
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Oh wait, I was reading WLP001 - the WLP002 is pretty darn close to the 1968, so nevermind!

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Old 11-30-2011, 06:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by cwheel View Post
I also love Lagunitas. If I was to pick my favorite brewery, it would definitely be them. I actually have never had their UCIVSA, as you call it, but have tried most of the others (at least the ones we can get in VA).

I don't really have much to add, other than sharing your enthusiasm. Maybe a few things to mention:

1) Lagunitas does use hop extract in some of their beers - don't be afraid to use it in place of some of the dry hopping if you think it will help

2) They use the 1968 yeast in the IPA - I've found that this makes my IPA clone truer to form than WLP 002 or US 05. Take that with a grain of salt, since I've never tasted what you are trying to clone.

3) Consider agitating the carboy with CO2 during dry hopping. They say they do this, and although they mention that the homebrewer can get the same effect by simply agitating the carboy, maybe the CO2 method makes a difference?

I am brewing their IPA clone again on Saturday - can't wait!
Great advice. As far as yeast, I haven't ventured into liquid yeast yet since I'm so small scale as of now (dry yeast just makes more sense for me). But you're probably right that it would make it a bit more true to style.

I don't have any hops extract but that's also good advice, i remember hearing that on their interview. The numbers I've given out are the ones that Tasty used after he took all variables into consideration so I'm trusting that they're basically equivalent as far as bitterness units are concerned. Is extract expensive?

Good call, I hadn't heard of the C02 agitation. How often would you say to agitate? And how much agitation? I imagine you wouldn't want to froth it because that would be like introducing oxidation which is what you don't want to do at bottling time. Right?

Thanks for sharing the enthusiasm! You should definitely try to get a hold of some undercover investigation shutdown ale! it's kind of like a mix of a barleywine, imperial red ale, and imperial ipa. it really hits all of the marks for me. their hairy eyeball is pretty good but actually gives me a heavy hangover and bends a bit too far into the 'prunes / figs' territory for me. brown shugga isn't being made this year, although i hear their Lagunitas Sucks ale is truly tasty.
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