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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Oktoberfest / Doppelbock / Something else
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:24 PM   #1
binkman
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Default Oktoberfest / Doppelbock / Something else

Code:
The Bismarck

Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 8.40 US gals 
Wort Volume After Boil: 6.50 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.073 SG 
Expected OG: 1.094 SG
Expected FG: 1.021 SG 
Expected ABV: 9.9 % 
Expected IBU (using Rager): 36.1 IBU 
Expected Color (using Morey): 16.5 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 0.384
Mash Efficiency: 67.0 % 
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins 
Fermentation Temperature: 49 degF 


Fermentables
Ingredient Amount % MCU
US Vienna Malt	 9 lb 0oz	 35.3 %	 4.8	 
German Munich Malt	 7 lb 8oz	 29.4 %	 6.3	 
US Pilsen Malt	 5 lb 0oz	 19.6 %	 0.8	 
US Munich 20L Malt	 1 lb 0oz	 3.9 %	 3.1	 
US Caramel Munich 60L Malt	 1 lb 0oz	 3.9 %	 9.2	 
US Carapils Malt	 1 lb 0oz	 3.9 %	 0.2	 
UK Brown Malt	 1 lb 0oz	 3.9 %	 8.7	 



Hops
Variety Alpha Amount IBU Form When
Northern Brewer	 8.0 %	 1.50 oz	 26.8	 Bagged Whole	 60 Min
Hallertauer	 3.5 %	 1.50 oz	 9.3	 Bagged Whole	 30 Min



Yeast
White Labs WLP830-German Lager 
(3 packs into a 9-liter starter, 
depending on how fresh they are. :-/ )



Mash Schedule
Mash Type:	 Full Mash
Schedule Name:	 Double Decoction (35-50-65C/95-122-149F) w/Mash Out

Step Type	Temperature	Duration
Rest at	 95 degF	 20
Pull decoction, boil, add back raising mash to	 122 degF	 45
Rest at	 122 degF	 20
Pull decoction, boil, add back raising mash to	 149 degF	 30
Rest at	 149 degF	 30
Raise by infusion to	 165 degF	 10

I am going for a stronger Oktoberfest beer here. I hesitate to call it an Imperial Oktoberfest for fear of being flamed. Notice the name of the beer is a subtle play on this idea, though. Before you call it something else, let me point out that the only lagers that get this high in alcohol are bocks, and while it could go that way, I'm trying to shy away from that malt profile by including all the traditional oktoberfest base malts. In order to keep it from being a total malt bomb I kept it slighty too bitter for style as a doppelbock. The BU:GU ratio keeps it in the middle range of malty, and I'm hoping the brown malt will help to move this perception a little bit more to balanced by adding some darker roasty bitter (but not dark fruit) notes. I'm also hoping the decoction will cut down on the final gravity a bit to keep it from being cloyingly sweet. My biggest problem with high abv malt-forward beers is too much residual sweetness.

If anyone has any idea on how to save on yeast please let me know.

Also, I don't intend for this to be ready for Oktoberfest. I've got 5 gallons of oktoberfest waiting for the keg to be kicked. This is just to occupy my lagering chamber until its time to brew another one in March.

So I'm looking for a malt-forward (but not a malt bomb) lager with good balance and some darker (but not dark fruit) notes to make it an interesting sippin' beer.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:30 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binkman View Post
My biggest problem with high abv malt-forward beers is too much residual sweetness.

Getting rid of the crystal malt and moving the mash temperature down will help greatly with that as will pitching an appropriately large yeast starter.
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:34 AM   #3
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Getting rid of the crystal malt and moving the mash temperature down will help greatly with that as will pitching an appropriately large yeast starter.
Moving down the mash temp? Even with the decoction?
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Old 09-14-2011, 12:48 AM   #4
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Yes. Try a main rest @ 148F.

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Old 09-14-2011, 01:21 AM   #5
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By main rest, what do you mean? My final rest is 149 for 30 minutes.

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Old 09-14-2011, 03:17 AM   #6
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That's the one. I didn't see the temp of 149F at first. IMO that schedule is a bit over-complicated, with 95F not necessary, 122F a bit low and too long @ 45 minutes. 128F for 20 minutes, 148F for 60 minutes and 168F mashout for 15 minutes will get it done and give you two decoction boils, full conversion and good attenuation with the big grain bill giving the beer good body and maltiness.

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Old 09-14-2011, 03:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
That's the one. I didn't see the temp of 149F at first. IMO that schedule is a bit over-complicated, with 95F not necessary, 122F a bit low and too long @ 45 minutes. 128F for 20 minutes, 148F for 60 minutes and 168F mashout for 15 minutes will get it done and give you two decoction boils.
I'm no decoction expert, but for a beer like that I'd do 130, 149, and mashout. I would definitely NOT do the 95F rest, and I agree 122F is too low and too long.
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:41 AM   #8
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Octoberfest/dopplebock from what i have ever drank are typically what you describe as sweet malty but thats the style really.Just seems like you will thin it out and introduce more alchohol notes doing decoctions with already modified malts.Im not trying to be negative just viewing from a different angle maybe but still trying to be helpfull.
Im having the same problem as im new to high avb beers and im getting that barley wine sweet carmelyness to them.
I think your on the right track by adding roast toast malts that are dry. Im thinking brown malt,munich,victory would help.
What kind of yeast were you using?
Something else to consider: I think pilsen malt is sweet from my breif experinece with it, maybe try a two row or marris otter or a toastier base malt. Im still trying to understand this myself.

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Old 09-14-2011, 02:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
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I'm no decoction expert, but for a beer like that I'd do 130, 149, and mashout. I would definitely NOT do the 95F rest, and I agree 122F is too low and too long.
The 95º is really just a dough-in, unless he holds it there for hours (making it an acid rest).

But I agree with BigED the protein rest is way to long, unless you're using an under modified malt, which I dont know of any US pils malts that are. Stick to a higher temp protein rest at a shorter temp.

And I also use a German Vienna Malt, I havent had any US vienna malts that are on par with Weyermann's, ect.
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Old 09-14-2011, 02:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonmohno View Post
What kind of yeast were you using?
Something else to consider: I think pilsen malt is sweet from my breif experinece with it, maybe try a two row or marris otter or a toastier base malt. Im still trying to understand this myself.
Using WLP830, the more attenuative german lager strain.

I'm not concerned about some malty sweetness in the beer, I just don't want to over-do it. I really like Oktoberfests and Doppelbocks just the way they are, I'm just concerned that with the higher abv here it might end up a little less attenuated, and so a little more pronounced than I want it to be, and maybe a little unbalanced with the alcohol. So I don't want it to be completely dried out, but on the drier side.

I'll look into changing some of those malts to their german varieties and see if the LHBS has them. And I need to do a bit more research into decoction mashing, I suspect, to get the right profiles for the beer I want to make.
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