Oct. 2011 BYO Nugget Nectar Clone - OG doesn't add up?

mmonacel · 10-10-2011, 01:56 PM

I was exited to see this clone show up in the recent BYO, but when entering in the recipe to BeerSmith, I can't seem to get close to the OG. Am I missing something? I keep getting 1.052 vs. the 1.072 listed as the OG and the IBUs are coming out as 100 (Tinsenth) or 122 (Rager) vs. the 91 listed. I've double checked my recipe entry, but to no avail. Following the instructions for all-grain, I come out with a total of 9.5 lbs of Pilsner. By my calcs it seems I'd need a little over 13 lbs of Pilsner to get to 1.072. I've entered in 65% efficiency which is the standard BYO uses as I understand it.

Any ideas?

Here's the recipe from BYO followed by how I have it entered in BeerSmith:

BYO Recipe:
Tröegs Brewing Co.
Nugget Necar clone
"The Replicator"

(5 gallons/19 L, extract with grains)
OG = 1.072 FG = 1.014
IBU = 91 SRM = 12 ABV = 7.5%

Ingredients
6.6 lbs. (3 kg) Muntons light, unhopped,
liquid malt extract
18 oz. (0.51 kg) dried malt extract
1.75 lb. (0.79 kg) Pilsner malt
0.5 lb. (0.22 kg) dark Munich malt (20 °L)
0.5 lb. (0.22 kg) Vienna malt
0.5 lb. (0.22 kg) crystal malt (60 °L)
19.5 AAU Nugget hop pellets (90 min.)
(1.5 oz./42 g of 13% alpha acid)
3.5 AAU Columbus hop pellets (20 min.)
(0.5 oz./14 g of 15% alpha acid)
2.9 AAU Palisade hop pellets (10 min.)
(0.75 oz./21 g of 8.25% alpha acid)
13 AAU Nugget hop pellets (1 min.)
(1.0 oz./28 g of 13% alpha acid)
21 AAU Simcoe hop pellets (1 min.)
(1.5 oz./42 g of 14% alpha acid)
7.5 AAU Columbus hop pellets (1 min.)
(0.5 oz./14 g of 15% alpha acid)
Columbus hop pellets (dry hop 7 days)
(0.25 oz./7 g of 15% alpha acid)
Nugget hop pellets (dry hop 7 days)
(1.0 oz./28 g of 13% alpha acid)
Simcoe hop pellets (dry hop 7 days)
(1.0 oz./28 g of 14% alpha acid)
1⁄2 tsp. yeast nutrient (last 15 min.)
1⁄2 tsp. Irish moss (last 30 min.)
White Labs WLP001 (American Ale) or
Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) yeast
0.75 cup (150 g) of corn sugar for
priming (if bottling)

Step by Step
Steep the crushed grain in 2 gallons (7.6 L) of water at 152 ºF (66.6 ºC) for 30 minutes. Remove grains from the wort and rinse with 2 quarts (1.8 L) of hot water. Add the liquid and dried malt extracts and boil for 90 minutes. Add the hops, Irish moss and yeast nutrient as per the schedule. Add the wort to 2 gallons (7.6 L) of cold water in a sanitized fermenter and top off with cold water up to 5 gallons (19 L). Cool the wort to 75 ºF (24 ºC). Pitch the yeast and aerate the wort heavily. Allow the beer to cool to 68 ºF (20 ºC). Hold at that temperature until fermentation is complete. Transfer to a carboy, avoiding any splashing to prevent aerating the beer and add the Columbus, Nugget and Simcoe dry hops. Condition for one week and then bottle or keg. Carbonate and age for two weeks.

All-grain option:
Use a single step infusion mash and an additional 7.75 lbs. (3.51 kg) Pilsner malt to replace the malt extracts. Mix the crushed grains with 3.7 gallons (14 L) of 172 °F (78 °C) water to stabilize at 152 ºF (67 ºC) for 60 minutes. Sparge with 175 ºF (79 ºC) water. Collect ~6 gallons (23 L) of wort runoff to boil for 60 minutes. Reduce the 90-minute hop addition to 1.25 oz. (35 g) Nugget hop pellets (13% alpha acid) (16.25 AAU) to allow for the higher utilization factor of a full wort boil. Follow the remainder of the extract with grain recipe.

How it's currently entered in my BeerSmith
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.59 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.71 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.052 SG
Estimated Color: 6.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 122.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 71.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsen Malt 2-Row (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Grain 1 86.4 %
8.0 oz Munich 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.5 %
8.0 oz Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 4.5 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2 4.5 %
1.25 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 5 72.8 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.00 %] - Boil 20. Hop 7 11.3 IBUs
0.75 oz Palisade [8.75 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 5.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 11 9.7 IBUs
1.50 oz Simcoe [14.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 10 15.7 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 1.0 Hop 12 5.2 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [5.00 %] - Boil 1.0 Hop 13 1.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [15.00 %] - Dry Hop Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [14.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 8 -
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 30.0 mins) Fining 6 -
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast 14 -

mkling · 10-10-2011, 02:20 PM

The first, and biggest problem is that you substituted pilsener malt for extract on a 1 to 1 basis (1 lb liquid extract = 1 lb grain, 1 lb dry extract = 1 lb grain). The ratios are closer to 1 lb liquid = 1.5 lbs grain & 1 lb dry = 2 lbs grain.

BeerSmith can help you with this. Enter your recipe as a partial mash as it was written up. Then use the Convert button and select convert to all-grain, put in your efficiency. It'll change the liquid & dry extract to the right amount of grain. It might by default give you 2 row instead of pilsener malt, but that's an easy change afterwards.

Hope that helps.

BrewThruYou · 10-10-2011, 02:28 PM

Yeah, something's wrong with their calc. An LME/DME combo does not equal a 1:1 ratio with grain. 13# pilsner sounds right.

BrewThruYou · 10-10-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkling

The first, and biggest problem is that you substituted pilsener malt for extract on a 1 to 1 basis (1 lb liquid extract = 1 lb grain, 1 lb dry extract = 1 lb grain). The ratios are closer to 1 lb liquid = 1.5 lbs grain & 1 lb dry = 2 lbs grain.

Just to clarify, BYO did the incorrect substitution, not the OP.

mmonacel · 10-10-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrewThruYou

Just to clarify, BYO did the incorrect substitution, not the OP.

Ok - good to know I'm not going crazy here. Bumping Pils up to 13.5 lbs brings the OG to 1.072 (without changing the specialty malts). Doing this brings the ABV to 7.4 which is basically right on target, but the color is still at 7.3 SRM vs. their stated 12. Bumping up the specialties in tandem can probably get this to be the correct color.

For the IBU difference, I found some mistakes on my entry and now get 87 IBUs vs. their 91 (in Tinsenth) so that's close enough for me.

I look forward to their correction of this to see what the final recipe really is.

mkling · 10-10-2011, 03:34 PM

You might also listen to the Brewing Network's Sunday Session on 6/27/11 in which they interviewed the Trogner brothers from Troegs. You can download an MP3 from http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/764 They give a lot of clues about how they brew NN. If my memory is right, they actually use Vienna malt as their base malt which would help darken this up some.

**snowveil** · 10-10-2011, 03:54 PM

I've got some cliff notes about that episode in front of me

80% of the grist is Vienna (yes, 80!). The rest iirc is Munich and pils.

Bitter with nugget and Simcoe, use Simcoe as the middle and end hop. Hopback with mostly Simcoe, and some tomahawk (columbus).

Dry hop with nugget and Simcoe at the rate of 30lbs per 100bbl. (that ratio *may* be wrong, it seems low to me..I'd probably stick to 2-3 oz for 5 gal.)

Let us know how it turns out! I just got about 18lbs of Vienna so I can experiment with a similar recipe

byobetsy · 11-07-2011, 05:37 PM

Hi there - Betsy Parks from BYO here. I got an email over the weekend about this thread, and I wanted to say that yes, there was indeed some errors on the Nugget Nectar recipe. Another reader contacted us a few weeks ago, and I confirmed the errors/corrections with Marc Martin, who writes the "Replicator" column.

So, to properly brew the Nugget Nectar (all-grain), both the dark Munich malt and the Vienna malt need to be bumped up to a total (that is, in addition to the amounts listed in the extract recipe) of 2.5 lbs. each. Here are the revised all-grain instructions:

All grain option:
This is a single step infusion mash using an additional 7.75 lbs.( 3.51 kg) Pilsner malt, 2 lbs. (.88 kg)dark Munich malt and 2 lbs.(.88 kg)Vienna malt to replace the liquid and dry malt extracts. Mix the crushed grains with 4.75 gallons (18 L) of 172° (77.8° C) water to stabilize at 152º F (66.6º C) for 60 minutes. Sparge slowly with 175º F (79º C) water. Collect approximately 6.5 gallons (29.5 L) of wort runoff to boil for 90 minutes. Reduce the 90 minute hop addition to 1.25oz. (35 g) Nugget hop pellets (13% alpha acid),(16.25 AAU) to allow for the higher utilization factor of a full wort boil. The remainder of this recipe and procedures are the same as the extract with grain recipe.

Thanks so much all of you for reading BYO. If you ever come across a question in the future, please feel free to email us at edit@byo.com!

mmonacel · 11-07-2011, 08:01 PM

You beat me to the post Betsy - thanks again!

**ILBMF** · 11-22-2011, 12:42 AM

I will be trying this soon. Can someone please re-list this recipe accurately (all grain) because there are many type-O's in the OP. Here's what I have for the grain bill, please correct me if wrong, thank you.

9.5 lbs 2 row Pilsner malt

3.75 lbs Dark Munich malt 20L

2.5 lbs Vienna malt

.5 lbs crystal malt 60L