Next Beer (5th brew)

pkiller001 · 12-04-2008, 01:46 AM

Hey all:
I'm hoping to both brew and bottle this weekend (my stores of drinkable beer are almost completely depleted...!)
Currently in primary is a Thurn and Taxis Roggenbier out of "Beer Captured." I'm using Wyeast 3944 (Belgian Witbier) and was hoping to pitch the wort of my next beer directly onto the yeast cake. I've read most of the threads I could find on this, and it seems the biggest concern, besides hygiene, is making sure the next beer's flavors overpower any possible remaining flavors from the first.
Looking through "beer captured" there are recipes for Ommegang and Hennepin, both of which I enjoy greatly. Do you guys foresee a problem with the rye beer overpowering the Belgian style?

gxm · 12-04-2008, 06:11 AM

What is the recipe for the roggenbier?

I've had good luck so far both pitching to yeast cakes, and washing the yeast to make a starter later.
The rules of thumb I've seen for pitching to the cake are to avoid doing a dark beer and then a light beer, and to avoid pitching to cake from a 1.060+ beer.
You can definitely wash the yeast from the first scenario. I don't know about the second.

pkiller001 · 12-04-2008, 03:50 PM

Thanks for the reply;
I'll post the recipe for the roggenbier and my OG/anticipated FG. I'll also post some info on both of the beers I'm considering.
Out of curiosity: I haven't seen much discussion about pitching to a cake from 1.060+ beer; what is the thought behind avoiding that?

gxm · 12-04-2008, 07:35 PM

Wyeast discourages it - Wyeast Laboratories. Customer Service FAQs

I vaguely recall reading in Brew Like a Monk that some of the Belgian breweries will reuse a batch of yeast in progression, a few times for lighter beer, a couple more for middle weight beer, and then just once for the high end beer.

That said, I'm sure there are folks here who have done it. Personally, since I'm going to invest my time and money into a batch of beer, for the most part I'd rather be cautious.
For example, I've made a number of ~1.050 OG brews using Belgian yeast specifically with the idea of washing the yeast and then getting a few more batches out of it.

pkiller001 · 12-05-2008, 12:47 AM

OK: Here's what's in the tank currently:
Thurn And Taxis Roggen Bier (from Beer Captured)
14oz Blegian Cara-Munich Malt
8oz German 65L Crystal
1oz British Chocolate Malt
24oz Rye Malt
6.6lbs extrat light LME
1oz Perle (Bittering)
1/4oz Saaz (flavoring)
Pitched on Wyeast 3944
OG was around 1.047, FG is to be 1.011-3

Would you like the Hennepin and Ommegang recipes as well?

gxm · 12-12-2008, 08:56 AM

Sorry, thought I'd replied before.

Your current beer wasn't too strong, or very darkly colored, so I'd guess you'd be fine pitching on it. I try to get as much as possible of the previous beer out, to minimize any flavor impact. If the last bit of beer in there is a little yeasty, I'll just pour that out, instead of putting the yeast in the keg/bottles.

Hope that helps

**NQ3X** · 12-12-2008, 01:57 PM

In my opinion, it's not an issue of color or strength. It's an issue of yeast management.

Leaving aside all the stuff about cell counts and pitching rates, over-pitching - which is what you're doing when you knock out onto an existing cake - virtually eliminates ester production. The flavor and aroma contribution that makes a Belgian-style beer definably Belgian-style is ... wait for it ... yeast esters.

If you want a beer with a noticeable lack of ester contribution, by all means over-pitch. But then you might as well pitch a packet of US-05!

Cheers,

Bob

P.S. If you'd like me to reiterate pitching rates and their impact on the final beer, let me know.

JKHomebrew · 12-13-2008, 08:13 PM

Ok so I would like to pitch my new batch of amber light est OG 1.050 from beersmith onto my dark IPA OG 1.046 yeast cake, i assume from reading this that is no good?

12-04-2008, 01:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
pkiller001 Junior Member Recipes Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 29	Next Beer (5th brew) Hey all: I'm hoping to both brew and bottle this weekend (my stores of drinkable beer are almost completely depleted...!) Currently in primary is a Thurn and Taxis Roggenbier out of "Beer Captured." I'm using Wyeast 3944 (Belgian Witbier) and was hoping to pitch the wort of my next beer directly onto the yeast cake. I've read most of the threads I could find on this, and it seems the biggest concern, besides hygiene, is making sure the next beer's flavors overpower any possible remaining flavors from the first. Looking through "beer captured" there are recipes for Ommegang and Hennepin, both of which I enjoy greatly. Do you guys foresee a problem with the rye beer overpowering the Belgian style? __________________ Primary: Omegang clone Secondary: Thurn and Taxis Roggenbier Bottled: Brewers Best American Pale Ale, Tom Mik's Imperial Stout

12-04-2008, 03:50 PM	#3 (permalink)
pkiller001 Junior Member Recipes Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 29	Thanks for the reply; I'll post the recipe for the roggenbier and my OG/anticipated FG. I'll also post some info on both of the beers I'm considering. Out of curiosity: I haven't seen much discussion about pitching to a cake from 1.060+ beer; what is the thought behind avoiding that? __________________ Primary: Omegang clone Secondary: Thurn and Taxis Roggenbier Bottled: Brewers Best American Pale Ale, Tom Mik's Imperial Stout

12-05-2008, 12:47 AM	#5 (permalink)
pkiller001 Junior Member Recipes Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 29	OK: Here's what's in the tank currently: Thurn And Taxis Roggen Bier (from Beer Captured) 14oz Blegian Cara-Munich Malt 8oz German 65L Crystal 1oz British Chocolate Malt 24oz Rye Malt 6.6lbs extrat light LME 1oz Perle (Bittering) 1/4oz Saaz (flavoring) Pitched on Wyeast 3944 OG was around 1.047, FG is to be 1.011-3 Would you like the Hennepin and Ommegang recipes as well? __________________ Primary: Omegang clone Secondary: Thurn and Taxis Roggenbier Bottled: Brewers Best American Pale Ale, Tom Mik's Imperial Stout

12-12-2008, 01:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
NQ3X Brewery Consultant Recipes Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Easton, PA Posts: 1,455 NQ3X's Gallery	In my opinion, it's not an issue of color or strength. It's an issue of yeast management. Leaving aside all the stuff about cell counts and pitching rates, over-pitching - which is what you're doing when you knock out onto an existing cake - virtually eliminates ester production. The flavor and aroma contribution that makes a Belgian-style beer definably Belgian-style is ... wait for it ... yeast esters. If you want a beer with a noticeable lack of ester contribution, by all means over-pitch. But then you might as well pitch a packet of US-05! Cheers, Bob P.S. If you'd like me to reiterate pitching rates and their impact on the final beer, let me know. __________________ http://www.breweryconsultant.com Fermenting: Nil Planned: Organic Pale Ale, Mild, Kraznaya Zvezda Conditioning: Anglo-American SMaSH (US 2-row, EKG, and Windsor) Ready for drinking: Bad Dog Blonde, 2007 Annual Hard Cider Three Hounds Aleworks

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12-04-2008, 06:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
gxm Senior Member Recipes Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 111	What is the recipe for the roggenbier? I've had good luck so far both pitching to yeast cakes, and washing the yeast to make a starter later. The rules of thumb I've seen for pitching to the cake are to avoid doing a dark beer and then a light beer, and to avoid pitching to cake from a 1.060+ beer. You can definitely wash the yeast from the first scenario. I don't know about the second.

12-04-2008, 07:35 PM	#4 (permalink)
gxm Senior Member Recipes Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 111	Wyeast discourages it - Wyeast Laboratories. Customer Service FAQs I vaguely recall reading in Brew Like a Monk that some of the Belgian breweries will reuse a batch of yeast in progression, a few times for lighter beer, a couple more for middle weight beer, and then just once for the high end beer. That said, I'm sure there are folks here who have done it. Personally, since I'm going to invest my time and money into a batch of beer, for the most part I'd rather be cautious. For example, I've made a number of ~1.050 OG brews using Belgian yeast specifically with the idea of washing the yeast and then getting a few more batches out of it.

12-12-2008, 08:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
gxm Senior Member Recipes Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 111	Sorry, thought I'd replied before. Your current beer wasn't too strong, or very darkly colored, so I'd guess you'd be fine pitching on it. I try to get as much as possible of the previous beer out, to minimize any flavor impact. If the last bit of beer in there is a little yeasty, I'll just pour that out, instead of putting the yeast in the keg/bottles. Hope that helps

12-13-2008, 08:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
JKHomebrew Member Recipes Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Rochester New York Posts: 44	Ok so I would like to pitch my new batch of amber light est OG 1.050 from beersmith onto my dark IPA OG 1.046 yeast cake, i assume from reading this that is no good?