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-   -   Need Vienna Lager input. (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/need-vienna-lager-input-42587/)

Bobby_M 10-24-2007 06:51 PM

Need Vienna Lager input.
 
I've recently bartered for a full sack of Vienna malt (Hugh and Baird). I'm thinking about doing a Vienna lager on the upcoming teach and friend to brew day and started looking for recipes. I've seen some that use about 1/3rd Vienna, 1/3rd Munich, 1/3rd Pils or MO. Then I see people that claim to love 100% Vienna bills..

I figured I'd start with 100% and see where I get.

Beertoolspro has this info on Bairds Vienna:

Vienna Malt

Origin: United Kingdom

Supplier: Bairds Malt

"Vienna Malt is used for making dark lager beer of the Vienna or Märzen style, dark in colour with a reddish tinge. Vienna malt usually only forms around 10 -15% of the grist with normal Lager malt and perhaps Caramalt.

The malt is a well modified Lager malt, resulting from full steeping and germination. The colour is achieved by kilning at higher temperatures than usual for Lager malts. Because it only forms a part of the grist, diastatic activity is less important.

Mash: Yes

DBFG: 7.9%
FG-CG: 2.0%
DBCG: 7.74%
HWE: 30
Moisture: 4.5%
AICG: 7.39%
Potential: 0.88 Plato

Color: 3.5 °L

Protein: 11.0%
TN: 1.76%
TSN: 0.757%
SNR: 43.0%

DP: 50.0 Lintner"



BUT!!!
Look at the incredibly low OG I'm getting:


3-A Vienna Lager

http://www.beertools.com/images/colors/10.jpg

Size: 11.55 gal
Efficiency: 82%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 36.8 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.011 (1.046 - 1.052)
|================================|
Terminal Gravity: 1.003 (1.010 - 1.014)
|================================|
Color: 11.0 (10.0 - 16.0)
|==========#=====================|
Alcohol: 1.12% (4.5% - 5.7%)
|================================|
Bitterness: 24.83 (18.0 - 30.0)
|=================#==============|

Ingredients:
25 lbs Vienna Malt
2 lbs Munich TYPE II
0.25 lbs 2-Row Caramel Malt 80L
3 oz Hallertau (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 45 min

JeffNYC 10-25-2007 02:04 PM

My next beer is a Vienna lager also:

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 60.00 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 20.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
1.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 10.00 %

What do you think of this? I seem heavier on Munich and Crystal than you.

Bobby_M 10-25-2007 02:26 PM

I figured out BTP had the potential gravity in plato and listed it as .88 plato instead of the more likely 8.8 like all the other Viennas. I fixed it and now have:

Vienna Lager
3-A Vienna Lager

http://www.beertools.com/images/colors/11.jpg

Size: 11.55 gal
Efficiency: 82%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 165.93 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.050 (1.046 - 1.052)
|==================#=============|
Terminal Gravity: 1.012 (1.010 - 1.014)
|=================#==============|
Color: 11.3 (10.0 - 16.0)
|===========#====================|
Alcohol: 4.9% (4.5% - 5.7%)
|=============#==================|
Bitterness: 24.83 (18.0 - 30.0)
|=================#==============|

Ingredients:
15 lbs Vienna Malt
3 lbs Maris Otter Pale
2 lbs Munich Malt
.5 lbs 2-Row Caramel Malt 80L
3 oz Hallertau (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 45 min

The BJCP says: No roasted or caramel flavor. I'm only using a bit of 80 for the color. I really want the Vienna to come through and most Durst even says about their Vienna, " Recommended Quantities: Up to 100% of total grain bill. ". I'm relatively confident there's enough diastatic power in the Vienna to convert itself and maybe a bit more, but I've added the 3lbs of MO to add a little boost.

JeffNYC 10-26-2007 06:46 PM

I pulled back the Munich a bit, also using crystal (in this case 40) for color. I wonder how much 1 pound brings to the mix in any case...

Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %

I'm using a mix of Hersbrucker and Sterling targeting 26 IBU, revising to have none less than 30 minutes in the boil.

What yeast are you using? I'm using Saflager S-23 (for the first time).

olllllo 10-26-2007 07:08 PM

/subscribe.
This is in my future.

Reverend JC 10-26-2007 07:18 PM

Bobby-

Your second malt bill looks sexy! I would go with that. An all vienna mailt bill is WWAAYYY to much. You would be on your way to a bock with that thing.

Bobby_M 10-26-2007 07:43 PM

Yeah, I'm settled on my second recipe right there. I am going to use S-23 this time around. I don't have any HBS orders in the works so I have to use what I have on hand. I plan to mash at 149F to keep it easy drinking.

the_bird 10-26-2007 07:59 PM

I really like Vienna malt, I bet this is a great beer. I might be temped to have a tiny little spicy hop addition at flameout, just for a little bit of aroma (thinking something like a half-ounce of Saaz), but that's just me.

Bobby_M 10-26-2007 08:01 PM

I don't want to overcomplicate it up front but since I keg, I always have the option of a wee dry hop in the there.

Chad 12-10-2007 09:18 PM

I'm planning on doing a vienna lager soon and stumbled across this thread. Bobby, did you brew this one? If so, how did it turn out? Anything you'd do differently?

Thanks,
Chad


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