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Piratwolf · 12-31-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satisfaction

I would strongly suggest you actually get some candi syrup, the flavor profile can be extremely complex due to the mallard reactions taking place during the manufacturing. Table sugar will ferment out completely and offer nothing but thinner beer and higher ABV....

According to BLAM and to the BN, Belgian breweries use the cheapest sugar possible, table sugar.

Also, I would NOT add sugar to the mash. In fact, I add mine with 10min left in the boil just to make sure it's mixed in. You could also make a simple syrup and add it to the fermenter.

Personally, I hate coriander so I'm against the spice additions. To me, Belgians are all about honoring the yeast. That being said, one great thing about Homebrew is that you can make whatever you like!

BTW, I just looked it up--apparently wlp530 & Wyeast 3787 are the same

. GMTA!

Satisfaction · 12-31-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piratwolf

According to BLAM and to the BN, Belgian breweries use the cheapest sugar possible, table sugar.

Also, I would NOT add sugar to the mash. In fact, I add mine with 10min left in the boil just to make sure it's mixed in. You could also make a simple syrup and add it to the fermenter.

The candi syrups are simple cheap sugars, just put through another process.

If you try to use just plain old table sugar you quickly find out that the flavor profile is not the same and not close to what the monks make.

Without these syrups it is not possible for us to duplicate say Westvleteren 12 for example. That dark color does not come from the malt.

Either which way it will be a good beer, I completely agree that this style is about the ester profile of the yeast.

Here is a post for the candi syrup recipe that I use and turns out great. The commercial product is significantly better than this though.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

Daver77 · 12-31-2012, 02:49 PM

Guys if you haven't yet get yourself a copy of Brew like Monk. Great book and in it tell you that Monks never used that hard candy sugar. They kept their cost low by all means. I never read that putting the sugar in at the beginning changes the flavor, makes sense though.

What I do is make candy sugar syrup on my stove. Real simple all you need is a candy thermometer.

eksf26 · 12-31-2012, 03:45 PM

The calculated FG is way high. Your recipe looks great. NO coriander or orange peel on this one. The sugar DOES matter, not so much from a ferment able aspect, but flavor. White table sugar is refined, and takes out all the impurities that are found in Belgian candi sugar. These impurities make subtle, but noticeable differences in the final product. If I were you, I would use a whole pound of white candi sugar ( replace the syrup, it's definitely no good) in your recipe and keep everything EXACTLY the same. Mash at 150*.

Satisfaction · 12-31-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daver77

Guys if you haven't yet get yourself a copy of Brew like Monk. Great book and in it tell you that Monks never used that hard candy sugar. They kept their cost low by all means. I never read that putting the sugar in at the beginning changes the flavor, makes sense though.

What I do is make candy sugar syrup on my stove. Real simple all you need is a candy thermometer.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, this is what I am talking about.. Water + Table Sugar + Nitrogen Source + Heat.

I would be very surprised if this could be made in a boiling wort, would be interested in learning how to do that.

**beergolf** · 12-31-2012, 05:25 PM

Quote:

If you try to use just plain old table sugar you quickly find out that the flavor profile is not the same and not close to what the monks make.

Without these syrups it is not possible for us to duplicate say Westvleteren 12 for example. That dark color does not come from the malt.

The OP is talking about a tripel so using plain table sugar is fine . Does not matter if it is cane or beet sugar according to BLAM.

I do agree for the darker Belgian styles nothing beats the good candi syrup for flavor. D-180 provides a great flavor to these brews. Homemade just cannot match the flavor so I spend a few bucks for the good D-180.

highgravitybacon · 12-31-2012, 10:38 PM

Table sugar and low mash temp worked for the last two Big Belgians I made. 20% sugar in a golden strong, mashed at 149F. 1.074 to 1.008 in ten days.

Tripel is still going. 1.082 to 1.012 in a week. 12% cheapo sugar, mash at 150f.

Basically just pilsen malt in the strong, pilsen and 5% specialty malts in the tripel.

I think any higher FG than 1.010 might come across as very sweet. Even though the sugar ferments completely, the esters, pilsen, and sugar give the impression of sweetness which tricks the mind into tasting sweetness.

Spices work for commercial brewers because their process is totally different. If I fermented the Unibroue yeast at 77f like they do, its ass in a glass. So they can spice it, ferment it hot, under pressure and get a smooth beer.

A carboy with foil on the mouth is totally different. I bet you don't need the spices.

Trust in the yeast.

DonRikkles · 01-01-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highgravitybacon

I think any higher FG than 1.010 might come across as very sweet. Even though the sugar ferments completely, the esters, pilsen, and sugar give the impression of sweetness which tricks the mind into tasting sweetness.

Can I rely just on the yeast to reduce the FG to around 1.012, or should I repitch the same or different yeast to get down to the low teens?

Piratwolf · 01-01-2013, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Satisfaction

The candi syrups are simple cheap sugars, just put through another process.

If you try to use just plain old table sugar you quickly find out that the flavor profile is not the same and not close to what the monks make.

Without these syrups it is not possible for us to duplicate say Westvleteren 12 for example. That dark color does not come from the malt.

if the OP had posted a request for making a dubbel or a quad, I wouldn't argue this (in fact, wouldn't have posted since I've never made either style & don't much care for them). But since he asked specifically about a Tripel, your advice to use dark candy sugar is out of place & I didn't want the OP to go the wrong direction.

If I do try a quad some day, i'ma give your sugar recipe a try. Cheers!

Satisfaction · 01-01-2013, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piratwolf

if the OP had posted a request for making a dubbel or a quad, I wouldn't argue this (in fact, wouldn't have posted since I've never made either style & don't much care for them). But since he asked specifically about a Tripel, your advice to use dark candy sugar is out of place & I didn't want the OP to go the wrong direction.

If I do try a quad some day, i'ma give your sugar recipe a try. Cheers!

Never did say which syrup to use.. I guess it can be implied though

If for a tripel recipe it would either be D-45 or lighter. The picture up above was something I made for a dark belgian strong.