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ImperialStout 02-18-2012 10:41 PM

Need help adjusting recipe / process
Looking to make a beer close to Sebago Brewing Company's Frye's Leap American IPA. It has a strong hop flavor and medium body. It is light golden in color with a fruity hoppiness that comes from extra dry hop conditioning. Ingredients found so far are:

Malt: American 2-row, caramel 20L & 60L
Hops: Highly hopped with Cascade, Centennial and Nugget. Dry hopped with Centennial and Cascade.
ABV: 6.2%
Original Gravity: 1.062
Color: Light Copper, 12 SRM
IBU: 55

Here is my guess for a 5 gal recipe for an Imperial ale:

10 pounds American Two-row Pale
1 pound Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L
1 pound Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L

boil 60 mins 0.5 Cascade pellet 6.0
boil 60 mins 0.5 Centennial pellet 8.7
boil 60 mins 0.25 Nugget pellet 13.0
boil 10 mins 0.5 Cascade pellet 6.0
boil 10 mins 0.5 Centennial pellet 8.7
boil 10 mins 0.25 Nugget pellet 13.0

Primary 14 days@68F
Secondary dry hop 14 days with 0.5 oz Cascade & 0.5 oz Centennial

California Ale V yeast in liquid form with high flocculation and 72% attenuation. Chose this yeast because it is listed as commonly used in American IPA's, gives a fruity taste and has low attenuation that contributes to a fuller body. This recipe calculates to produce the following at 75% efficiency which I can achieve..

OG: 1.069
SRM: 11
IBU: 55
ABV: 6.7

Questions: Does this recipe look like it will produce a better than medium body beer? Have heard the ratio of pale malt to crystal malt affects body and head but not sure what that ratio is.

This is an all grain recipe. Any critique on the recipe are welcomed.

LexusChris 02-18-2012 11:37 PM

Recipe thouhts
Never had this beer, but did have a few thoughts on your recipe...

20% Crystal seems a bit high to me.. I know some folks like their crystal. however, I would prefer half that and mash in the 154-F area. Get some of your body from the higher mash temp, and the caramel & color from the crystal. YMMV...

For the hops, I would keep the high-alpha hops (Centennial & Nugget) in the bittering, but move the cascade towards the end. It is not contributing much in the IBU's and its wonderfull flavor & aroma is best put late in the boil.

I would also put some 2-min or flame-out hops in there. They will contribute more to aroma with some more flavor. Plus 2-3 oz of dry-hops for 7-10 days.

Like the recipe! I brew with those 3 hops a lot.. a good combo. Good luck!

ImperialStout 02-19-2012 09:51 PM

Thanks for the advice. Can see where the benefit of high AA hops is bittering and low AA hops is flavor. Moved high AA hops to 60 min and low AA hops to 5 min and boosted dry hops to 2 oz.
Cut crystal to 1 # 60L, boosted pale malt to 11 # (5 gal MLT limit is 12# grain) and added 2 # DME for higher ABV.

Changed recipe is:

11# American Two-row Pale
2# Extra Light Dry Extract
1# Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L

boil 60 mins 1.0 Centennial pellet 8.7 AA
boil 60 mins 0.5 Nugget pellet 13.0 AA
boil 5 mins 1.0 Cascade pellet 6.0 AA
dry hop 7 days 1.0 Cascade pellet 6.0
dry hop 7 days 1.0 Centennial pellet 8.7

Any other comments welcomed

skeezerpleezer 02-19-2012 10:26 PM

With the above, I get 1.083 OG, 49IBU, 11.6 SRM out of beersmith. To keep the Gravity:IBU the same with the increased OG, you will need to up the ibus to around 74.
I have never had the beer, but if it is "highly hopped" and has a strong hop flavor as described on the Sebago website, you will probably need to add another 3-4 oz of hops from 15min to flameout. If I was doing it I would do something like:

60min: 1.5oz Nugget
15min: .50oz each Cascade, Centennial
5min: .50oz each Cascade, Centennial, Nugget
Flameout: .50oz each Cascade, Centennial, Nugget
Dryhop: 1oz each Cascade, Centennial

That would give you around 78 IBUs, and much more flavor/aroma.

slarkin712 02-19-2012 11:38 PM

I agree that is a little high for the crystal malt. I'd remove one pound and consider using vienna or munich malt for a nice bit of malt sweetness. And 14 days seems like a long time to dry hop. I've never dry hopped for more than 7 days. I've read that extended dry hopping can lead to grassy flavors.

ImperialStout 02-20-2012 01:55 AM

Thanks. Have Beersmith but have not used it enough to know what I am doing. The Hopville recipe calculator gives similar results, 1.086 OG, 51.6 IBU, and 10 SRM. The changes look good. Will apply and see what happens.

Nice thing about this hobby is learning through doing, besides, you can drink your mistakes.

ImperialStout 02-20-2012 02:51 PM

Two questions: What does adding 1.5 oz of hops at "flame out" do, especially when the same type and amounts are being added at 5 min? I assume "flame out" means just before the heat is turned off. Added these 3 hops to the Hopville recipe and the IBU's (81.5) did not change at all. Assume they are for flavoring only but those hops would only be in the wort 20 min while it is cooled, and only till the wort is transferred to a fermenting bucket. Is 20 min long enough in a cooling wort to make a difference in flavor?

Also, what was meant by -"To keep the Gravity:IBU the same with the increased OG, you will need to up the ibus to around 74?" Think it means the bittering IBU's need to be about 74 to balance the increased sweetness from the higher OG. Will only dry hop 7 days as suggested.

Not familiar with some terms and how one ingredient or process step affects something else. Just started brewing in April, 2011 and have only made 5 brews. This is my first "homemade" recipe based on available ingredients of a commercial beer.

skeezerpleezer 02-20-2012 04:28 PM

The time that hops are boiled has different effects on the oils that are extracted. Basically:
Anything over 20 minutes or so=bitterness only (there are some exceptions)
15-20 min=flavor, some bitterness
Flameout (0)-5-Flameout=Aroma

From 20 to 0, the closer you get to 0, the more aroma and less flavor. By making multiple additions from 15-0, you will end up with a lot more flavor and aroma than if you stuck to just the 5min addition. You don’t have to use the amounts or hops I listed, but through experimentation, I like to use around 1.5oz for each, and sometimes have a 3oz or so flameout addition. I have one IPA that has 9oz of hops all in the last 20min/dryhop. Overkill? Maybe. But it smells wonderful, and has a very strong hop flavor without being too bitter.

Flame-Out means you put the hops in when you turn off the burner. I usually let mine steep in the wort for 5-10 minutes before cooling. This addition is very common in IPAs and provides a lot of aroma. They don’t add bitterness. I usually remove them from the kettle once my wort gets to about 100F.

As far as the IBU: Gravity (BU:GU) it is the ratio of IBU:gravity pts. The original was 55IBU:62OG, or .89. If you increase the gravity to .083 you would need ~74 IBU (83*.89). I usually shoot for around a 1:1 ratio on an IPA, but I like hoppy beers. There are a lot of threads on this as well

Another term you may hear is “hop-bursting” which is what I did in my example above. There are a lot of threads on here about it, but basically, it is using primarily late hop additions (20min or less) to get your desired IBUs. This uses more hops, but will give an awesome flavor/aroma.

I like your ingredient selections, and they should make a fantastic beer.

ImperialStout 02-20-2012 06:06 PM

Never knew what the BU:GU meant on a recipe. Didn't think it mattered much but how wrong I was. Now know it means balance, which you hear a lot about in beer tasting.

Learning is like mining gold, you get a little here and there but once in awhile you get a nugget that changes everything. Learning about BU:GU is definitely a nugget and ties the recipe together. It helped me adjust this recipe to get the following at 75% efficiency:

OG: 1.086
FG: 1.024
SRM: 10
IBU: 81.5
BU:GU - .95
ABV: 8.3

It also helped balance an RIS recipe that was too bitter last time without having to guess how to adjust it.

skeezerpleezer 02-20-2012 06:58 PM

There are some good charts for referencing BU:GU for different styles. I am on my phone or I would try to find a link. Ray Daniels' "Designing Great Beers" has a lot of good info also from what I understand.

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