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Old 02-05-2013, 03:23 PM   #11
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I agree the Scottish yeast has no place, and that Irish ale is good for malt forward beers. But, it seems that for something like the type of IIPA you're describing, Irish ale would be quite suitable:

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STYLE: Imperial IPA

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Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma that can be derived from American, English and/or noble varieties (although a citrusy hop character is almost always present). Most versions are dry hopped and can have an additional resinous or grassy aroma, although this is not absolutely required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is typical. Some alcohol can usually be noted, but it should not have a "hot" character.

Appearance: Color ranges from golden amber to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is strong and complex, and can reflect the use of American, English and/or noble hop varieties. High to absurdly high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will generally support the strong hop character and provide the best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. A long, lingering bitterness is usually present in the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish. A clean, smooth alcohol flavor is usually present. Oak is inappropriate in this style. Some sulfur may be present if sulfate water is used, but most examples do not exhibit this character.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-full body. No harsh hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Smooth alcohol warming. Overall Impression: An intensely hoppy, very strong pale ale without the big maltiness and/or deeper malt flavors of an American barleywine. Strongly hopped, but clean, lacking harshness, and a tribute to historical IPAs. History: A recent American innovation reflecting the trend of American craft brewers "pushing the envelope" to satisfy the need of hop aficionados for increasingly intense products. Category may be stretched to cover historical and modern American stock ales that are stronger, hoppier ales without the malt intensity of barleywines. The adjective "Imperial" is arbitrary and simply implies a stronger version of an IPA; "double," "extra," "extreme," or any other variety of adjectives would be equally valid.

Comments: Bigger than either an English or American IPA in both alcohol strength and overall hop level (bittering and finish). Less malty, lower body, less rich and a greater overall hop intensity than an American Barleywine. Not necessarily as high in gravity/alcohol as a barleywine. A showcase for hops.

Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for singletemperature infusion mashing); can use a complex variety of hops (English, American, noble). American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation. Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate.

Vital Statistics:
OG: 1.075 - 1.090+
IBUs: 60 - 100+
FG: 1.012 - 1.020
SRM: 8 - 15
ABV: 7.5 - 10%+

Commercial Examples: Dogfish Head 90-minute IPA, Rogue I2PA, Stone Ruination IPA, Three Floyd's Dreadnaught, Russian River Pliny the Elder, Moylan's Moylander Double IPA. Stock ales include examples such as Stone Arrogant Bastard and Mendocino Eye of the Hawk.
Wyeast Strains:
1056 - American Ale™
1084 - Irish Ale™
1272 - American Ale II™
1332 - Northwest Ale™
1728 - Scottish Ale™
1450 - Denny's Favorite 50
Apparently, Scottish ale wouldn't be the worst idea ever, either.
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can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:29 PM   #12
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Hey, if you're happy with the flavor profile that Irish/Scottish yeast lends to an American IPA, then by all means, use it. But for the type of IPA I'm describing, Avery doesn't use it for Maharaja.

In fact, none of the beers in your example use Irish or Scottish ale yeast -- "Commercial Examples: Dogfish Head 90-minute IPA, Rogue I2PA, Stone Ruination IPA, Three Floyd's Dreadnaught, Russian River Pliny the Elder, Moylan's Moylander Double IPA. Stock ales include examples such as Stone Arrogant Bastard and Mendocino Eye of the Hawk."

Not to mention, this BJCP category lumps every type of IIPA as one. It's not solely talking about American.

I can post written recommendations on several topics as well. It doesn't make them true, or the best option. Hell, I could use Citra hops in a barrel-aged stout like KBS, or even Pannepot if I wanted to.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:30 PM   #13
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WLP001 has never done me wrong for IPAs, or anything that needs a clean fermenting yeast really.

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:33 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by bobbrews View Post
Hey, if you're happy with the flavor profile that Irish/Scottish yeast lends to an American IPA, then by all means, use it. But for the type of IPA I'm describing, Avery doesn't use it for Maharaja.

In fact, none of the beers in your example use Irish or Scottish ale yeast -- "Commercial Examples: Dogfish Head 90-minute IPA, Rogue I2PA, Stone Ruination IPA, Three Floyd's Dreadnaught, Russian River Pliny the Elder, Moylan's Moylander Double IPA. Stock ales include examples such as Stone Arrogant Bastard and Mendocino Eye of the Hawk."

Not to mention, this BJCP category lumps every type of IIPA as one. It's not solely talking about American.

I can post written recommendations on several topics as well. It doesn't make them true, or the best option. Hell, I could use Citra hops in a barrel-aged stout like KBS, or even Pannepot if I wanted to.
Hey man, I'm not trying to argue with you. Personally, Irish ale wouldn't be high on my list for an IIPA either. But if the OP wants to use it, it's not going to hurt his beer. Saying it's completely "out of place" would seem to discourage him.... I'd say if you use a lower attenuating yeast like that for an IIPA, mash low, 149, and long 75 mins. Use around 5% simple sugar, and pitch a big, healthy starter. Use nutrient. And ferment quite cool. The fruity character of Irish ale could lend nice to a darker, sweeter, more caramelly IIPA if played off the right hops.
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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Originally Posted by bottlebomber View Post
Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:37 PM   #15
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Where did I say, completely "out of place"?

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And if you want something more hop focused, use a clean Cali Ale yeast starter like WLP001 or WLP090. Irish Ale yeast is a bit out of place here.
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I'm not saying British yeast is out of place for an American IPA. Nothing wrong with using English ale yeasts like WLP002 or 007. But I feel that Irish ale yeast is a bit out of place. So is Scottish.
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Saying it's completely "out of place" would seem to discourage him.
I'm not trying to discourage the OP. But it seems that you're trying to discredit me for disagreeing with you.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:42 PM   #16
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Irish ale yeast is a bit out of place here.
Sorry, a bit out of place. Gimme some credit though, I didn't quote the completely part, just the "out of place".

Let's get back on topic and help the OP come up with an epic IIPA recipe, regardless of his choice in yeast.
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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Originally Posted by bottlebomber View Post
Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:52 PM   #17
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Right now, this is how it looks.

Brewer James L
Date 01/29/2013
Batch Size 5.238 gal Boil Size 5.962 gal
Boil Time 60.000 min Efficiency 70%
OG 1.076 FG 1.021
ABV 7.2% Bitterness 65.1 IBU (Tinseth)
Color 6.9 srm (Morey) Calories (per 12 oz.) 253
Fermentables

Total grain: 14.750 lb
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Simpsons - Maris Otter Grain 6.500 lb Yes No 81% 3.0 srm
Corn Sugar (Dextrose) Sugar 16.000 oz No No 100% 0.0 srm
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L Grain 4.000 oz Yes No 74% 60.0 srm
Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 7.000 lb Yes No 79% 2.0 srm
Hops

Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Columbus 15.5% 1.000 oz Boil 60.000 min Pellet 41.4
Columbus 15.5% 0.500 oz Boil 15.000 min Pellet 10.3
Centennial 10.5% 1.000 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 10.2
Cascade 6% 1.000 oz Boil 5.000 min Pellet 3.2
Cascade 6% 1.000 oz Aroma 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Centennial 10.5% 1.000 oz Aroma 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Cascade 6% 2.000 oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Misc

Name Type Use Amount Time
Yeast Nutrient Other Boil 2.000 tsp 10.000 min
Irish Moss Fining Boil 1.000 tsp 10.000 min

Yeast(this will be from harvested batch, and will do a 1L starter)

Name Type Form Amount Stage
Wyeast - Irish Ale Ale Liquid 0.528 cup Primary

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Old 02-05-2013, 06:00 PM   #18
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I like the recipe, I think it will make a great IPA. You may want to back of the corn sugar a tad, replace the gravity w/ base malt and mash low to get a good, dry beer. And if it were me, I would up the aroma/steep hops. It never hurts in an IPA. Make sure you aerate well too, that Irish yeast is a bit lazy, so give it all you can to help it finish strong. Big starter, good nutrient and a well saturated wort will make it happy.

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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Originally Posted by bottlebomber View Post
Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:05 PM   #19
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I like the recipe, I think it will make a great IPA. You may want to back of the corn sugar a tad, replace the gravity w/ base malt and mash low to get a good, dry beer. And if it were me, I would up the aroma/steep hops. It never hurts in an IPA. Make sure you aerate well too, that Irish yeast is a bit lazy, so give it all you can to help it finish strong. Big starter, good nutrient and a well saturated wort will make it happy.
I just pitched a 1L starter of that irish ale into my Oatmeal Stout the other day, and 6 hours into it, it was going nuts. I may do a 1.5L starter this time, 2 days in advanced. My last one I did a 1L one day in advance.

I'll think about the corn sugar advice you put in. I could back it down a little.

I could drop it to 8 oz, and up the Maris Otter to 7lbs, and this should yield about the same gravity.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:21 PM   #20
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There is some confusion with the way you posted your recipe. I'm not sure if you meant to report the %'s as amount of fermentables or something else. So for an example, Corn sugar = 7% of the total fermentables, not 100%. 7% is not too high for a monster IIPA. And 16 oz. = 1 lb. You'll probably want more than 2% Crystal malt in here as well.

Be sure your boil size and batch size are accurate for your system. I doubt only 0.75 gallons is lost after the boil and after the transfer to primary.

I preferred the large 60 minute hop addition and slightly lower 30 minute hop addition that you erased after the revisions. Remember, this is a particularly large IPA. I would also use a 4-5 oz. dryhop here with mixed Cascade/Centennial.

If you're going with the Irish Ale yeast, be sure that it's healthy and that you pitch the appropriate starter size. With corn sugar, a lower mash temp, and proper times/temps/ratios, I see no reason why it should not attenuate 4-6 points higher than expected.

Check out mrmalty and yeastcalc.com

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