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Old 10-08-2008, 12:10 PM   #21
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I'm with Bobby_M here. Its really annoying.
As a (currently) extract brewer, I'm not really motivated to go reverse engineering a recipe to convert it to AG.
I guess if I was really interested in one, I could just pop it into BeerSmith. I think Bobby's point is that you shouldn't have to do that. The book's authors should have done it. Its not like it is hard to cut & paste the recipe and simply replace out the grain bill for the extract (or vice versa).
There's no reverse engineering required. They list the All-grain replacement ingredients for each recipe. I've brewed several recipes from the book since I got it and have no complaints. I enter all my recipes into promash anyway, so for me, it's simply a matter of looking further down the page.
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:16 PM   #22
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I've held off on buying this because I heard that is was grossly slanted towards extract brewing, but if it has the AG replacements listed I may give it a look.

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Old 10-08-2008, 01:09 PM   #23
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Yes, I admit that I'm nit picking. I'm not slamming the quality of the recipes at all. I wouldn't call it an extract brewing book. It's a RECIPE book. They even list them from easy to hard in the sense that some recipes really should be done as all grain to work right. I'm just saying that instead of putting all the extracts/steeping grains into a nice box with relative percentages and then textually explaining the all grain substitutions, it would have been NICE to include an additional small box with the literal all grain version. It would have taken like 5 extra pages total to do this.

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Old 10-08-2008, 01:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ohiobrewtus View Post
I've held off on buying this because I heard that is was grossly slanted towards extract brewing, but if it has the AG replacements listed I may give it a look.
I highly recommend it. I use the recipes as a partial framework/starting point whenever I'm designing a recipe for a style I've never done before. I've not been disappointed yet - that special roast suggestion for the SEBA was genius! And yeah, it lists the "main" (extract) recipe, then the fermentation specifics, then the all-grain option where it'll say something like "replace the pilsner extract with 5 lbs of continential pilsner malt"; the steeping/specialty grains almost always stay the same as the base recipe.
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98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
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XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:27 PM   #25
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I think that the book is great, although I've always been more of a "look at the recipe for ideas and make something kind of similar" sort of person for both cooking and beer brewing. Since I'm just really getting started with all grain (3 ag batches so far mixed in with 20 or so extract only/steep/partial mash batches) I followed one of them pretty closely last weekend and it tasted great going into the fermenter.

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Old 10-08-2008, 02:40 PM   #26
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I've commented on the book starting here in this thread.

My beef was that the pre-boil gravities weren't matching up with the grain bills (but as I pointed out, that was from a lack of a table listing the potential gravities of the grains used). That comment got a reply from JamilZ (his 1 and only post on this forum).

Disregarding the gravities problems (I just use what BeerToolsPro comes up with), the book seems pretty good and I did my first AG recently (Through A Mild Darkly, pg. 146) using Bobby_M's AG primer. My readings were good and my efficiency was 68% (the book assumes a 70% efficiency).

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Old 10-08-2008, 03:37 PM   #27
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Still, though, you'd have to make adjustments even if he listed the AG recipe clearly alongside the extract version. Bobby, I know you hit 85% - 90% on most of your batches - you'd still be plugging into BeerSmith to adjust his AG recipes, since they're based on a 70% efficiency.

His recipes in the book do require that you have access to some specialized extracts, like Pilsner and Munich extract (which he also talks about on the show a great deal). There are some recipes, like for any of the smoked beers, where he tells you that you REALLY do need to do a partial mash, just because rauchmalt extract doesn't exist.

Honestly, I read and re-read the book mostly for the pointers, the commentary, moreso than the recipes themselves. What I think is great is that he succinctly points out what the key elements of a particular style are. That's what makes it so much better than just a recipe book, it helps you really understand the styles even if you end up tweaking the recipes yourself.

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Old 10-08-2008, 07:41 PM   #28
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Also they don't adjust the hops at all.

I thought that you get less efficiency for the hops for Extract recipes. And Extract recipes always upped the hops by like 25% from an AG recipe to make up for the decrease in isomerizing efficiencies.

I know I'd have to adjust the recipe depending on the actual AA% levels of my specific hops to get the targeted IBU's. And I have BeerSmith to do that for me. But I kinda agree with Bobby. It's wierd that JZ brews AG so they'd have his AG recipe, then they'd convert it to extract, then they'd reconvert it back to AG.

I'm not saying it can't be done but it's like when you translate English to German in Babblefish then back from German to English. Sometimes it ends up being a little different.

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Old 10-08-2008, 07:46 PM   #29
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Less efficiency not for brewing with extract, per se, but because extract brewers tend to do partial boils. If you brew extract with full boils, extraction rates are the same.

I'm really of the opinion that "recipe books" are of limited use; where Designing Great Beers and, to a slightly lesser (but broader) extent JZ's book, fit into play is helping you really understand the styles, what the key elements of them are, what their background is, and give you some general guidance so that you can do your own recipes and make your own adjustments.

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Old 10-08-2008, 08:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan! View Post
I highly recommend it. I use the recipes as a partial framework/starting point whenever I'm designing a recipe for a style I've never done before.
+1.

I also really like the text section where he explains the keys and the common faults to brewing each of the styles. I've used the recipes as starting points. I will always add my own little personal tweeks to any recipe to tailor it to my tastes.
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