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Old 06-05-2012, 06:21 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by teucer View Post
Yup. I can't disagree with that description, even though I personally wouldn't confuse the issue with the H-word.
I guess I mostly take issue with the concept of "tradition". Too often it's purpose "regulates" creativity or adaptation rather than honoring a base concept.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:43 PM   #22
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Whew I should've known I'd be inciting a huge discussion over semantics with my crackpot brewing ideas. I'm learning quite a bit about the wheat beer classifications.

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Originally Posted by terrapinj View Post
why not try a more neutral yeast strain? you've got so much going on with the hops and smoke not sure you'd want the estery flavors from a traditional german wheat strain.

simcoe and citra can work great with wheat - i brewed a citra wheat pale ale that was really tasty

also with all the wheat you prob don't need the carapils in there but they won't really harm anything either
I guess I'm not sure where I'd go with this one. The strain I picked was mainly for it's fruitiness. I thought it'd go well with the smoke. Kind of a summer picnic BBQ is the mental picture I'm getting out of this beer. I am worried about the complexity of the yeast though. I'm hoping it doesn't turn into a cluster **** of smells and flavors.

Specifically though, I am going for the cloudiness produced (I think) by these more traditional weizen yeasts. Not because I adore cloudy beer...but there's a complicated story (about my passed grandfather) behind this brew that's influencing its ingredients and style.

Mainly just including the Carapils on a recommendation because it's a neutral grain that promotes head retention I guess.

EDIT: Upon further consideration, I decided to add the complicated story behind this brew that's influencing the recipe to the OP.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:17 PM   #23
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the wheat will give you tons of head retention on it's own

you can also try using a fruity low floculating yeast that is a little cleaner like a kolsch yeast

wyeast 2565 is fruity and has similar floculation properties per their description

i like the concept behind it, esp trying to smoke the hops - def curious to hear how it turns out

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Old 06-06-2012, 01:03 AM   #24
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If the rules and definitions don't matter, why don't we just call it a Grande Hazelnut Mocha Latte?
Because his beer lacks hazelnuts, chocolate and milk, that's why. He's calling it an unconventional, smoked Hefeweizen. That's exactly what he's got, since he's using roughly 50% wheat, Hefe yeast and some smoke flavor. Adding fruit to a Pale Ale doesn't make it "not a Pale Ale" anymore.


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Originally Posted by Climber View Post
The rye beer that was not part of the barrel project, but used the same yeast was completely diacetyl.
Maybe you had a massive Pediococus colony and not enough Brettanomyces to clean it up. Pedio makes diacetyl and Bretts chews it up later, if I recall my souring lore correctly.


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Originally Posted by sidepart View Post
The strain I picked was mainly for it's fruitiness. I thought it'd go well with the smoke. Kind of a summer picnic BBQ is the mental picture I'm getting out of this beer ... Specifically though, I am going for the cloudiness produced (I think) by these more traditional weizen yeasts ... there's a complicated story (about my passed grandfather) behind this brew
Just a recommendation here, I'd think that the "clove" flavor associated with cold-fermented Hefe's might match the smoke better than the fruit. I'm just not sure what flavor combo I've had that mixed fruit and smoke, outside of smoked chili peppers (yum). If you ferment that yeast cold (61-63F) you'll get more clove than banana (can't imagine banana and smoke mixing well), but hey, its your beer! Experiment away!

And the whole concept behind the beer is very, very cool. Best of luck to ya.
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Old 06-06-2012, 01:22 AM   #25
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Just a recommendation here, I'd think that the "clove" flavor associated with cold-fermented Hefe's might match the smoke better than the fruit. I'm just not sure what flavor combo I've had that mixed fruit and smoke, outside of smoked chili peppers (yum). If you ferment that yeast cold (61-63F) you'll get more clove than banana (can't imagine banana and smoke mixing well), but hey, its your beer! Experiment away!

And the whole concept behind the beer is very, very cool. Best of luck to ya.
I read that too, and I was thinking the same thing about trying to bring out the clove instead of the banana. My basement keeps the wort at roughly 64-66F right now, which is already on the low end of most ale yeast. Maybe I'll stick the bucket on the floor to make it a tad cooler.
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Old 06-06-2012, 12:38 PM   #26
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Any yeast that ferments fast (including Hefe strains) will ramp the beer's temp up as much as 10 degrees above ambient, at peak fermentation. Having a basement at 64F is a great thing, but definitely keep it in a water bath to keep the fermentation temps a degree or two below that.

Down here in Florida, the ambient temps are only good for making Saisons

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Old 06-06-2012, 02:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ghpeel View Post
Any yeast that ferments fast (including Hefe strains) will ramp the beer's temp up as much as 10 degrees above ambient, at peak fermentation. Having a basement at 64F is a great thing, but definitely keep it in a water bath to keep the fermentation temps a degree or two below that.

Down here in Florida, the ambient temps are only good for making Saisons
Good advice, I'll keep track of that and maybe use a water bath. The basement ambient temp is cooler than that by a little. I was saying the average wort temperature I've been getting is usually around 64-66 when it's in the basement. I bet with a hefe strain it could go up a little.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:33 PM   #28
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Didn't mean to scare you about infection. It sounds like you are very careful. If you do in fact hit 15 IBU you should be just fine. I'm not sure you can make that assumption with a 15 minute bittering hop boil. It takes time for the alpha acid in hops to isomerize and become a factor. Probably better to use a smaller amount and boil them for the entire time. Then do whatever late hop additions you want for flavor/aroma.
As far as grain I think you are right on with the carapils for head retention since this is a partial mash. I made a smoked hefe to resemble bamberg ones (they don't add smoke malt, but the hefes pick up small amounts of smoke from the equipment). I remember thinking next time leave it out. It wasn't bad though, I just like some straight up hefe.

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Old 06-07-2012, 12:36 PM   #29
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The problem was in the carboy. The bugs were added to the barrel. It was probably pedio or lacto but was not supposed to be in there. Live and learn, unfortunately I'm super sensative to diacetyl so the rye went down the drain.

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Old 06-12-2012, 05:50 PM   #30
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The brew is in the bucket right now fermenting, and it started bubbling pretty good the day after.

I decided to do about 1 hour with 0.3oz of 12.9%AA Simcoe. Took a hydrometer reading after the boil. It came out to an OG of about 1.049 (close). It's probably because I started with 6.5 gallons and only managed to boil it down to about 5.5-5.75 gallons.

I tasted what I tested with the hydrometer. Tasted like honey, then a sharp kick of Simcoe bitter followed immediately by citrus. I have a feeling the sharpness is going to die down a bit once the yeast go to work. Should only be about 14-15 IBUs. Can't wait to taste it with the yeast when I add it to the secondary.

So far so good.

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