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-   -   Malt Blast (15% abv) advice needed (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/malt-blast-15-abv-advice-needed-381690/)

Tiroux 01-15-2013 03:46 PM

Malt Blast (15% abv) advice needed
 
Hey guys.

I'm playing around with beer, meads, fruits wines, etc... and I got this idea for a long time. In french, I call it ''liqueur de malt''. It translate by Malt Liquor, but I know in USA this may refer to a cheap beer of some sort.

What I mean by ''liquor'' is a high alcool (around 15% abv) sweet and strong beverage.

I'm looking for a strong, sweet, round and complex beverage that would be 100% malt forward. That kind of thing that you sip in a whisky glass more than you drink from the bottle. Maybe even not carbonated.

Anyways, here's my first draft recipe.

Malt Liquor - 5.25 Gallons

11lb Maris Otter
2lb Munich (To give a good body and more maltiness)
2lb Vienna (more maltiness)
2lb Wheat Malt (just to help enzymatic activity)
1lb Honey Malt (for a slight enhance sweet honey taste)
1lb Special Roast Malt (for a little biscuity/bready complexity)

2lb Buckwheat Honey
1.4lb (1 can) Maple Syrup

2oz Fuggles 120m


Step 1

Brew the beer (only the malts and hops)
147F and 156F steps /30" each
Gives around OG 1.095
Ferment it out with a good ale yeast (probably a simple Notthingham)


Step 2

Let it ferment for about 2 weeks in primary
Cold crash for a day or two
Rack in secondary with Honey and Maple syrup
Add Champagne yeast or Lalvin K1
Let it ferment again for a good 2 weeks
Rack it to tertiary and let it age a bit
Then bottle, carbed or not



So my question... Is the champagne yeast will eat too much sugars and it will finish too dry? Should I do I really high mash to get non-fermentable sugars?

kingwood-kid 01-15-2013 10:23 PM

Alcohol is less dense than water, so a beer that starts at 1.050 and finishes at 1.010 has much less residual sugar than a beer that starts at 1.120 and finishes at 1.010. I don't think you'll need to add any ingredients or use any procedures to get more residual sugars. I think you'll want to do the opposite, mashing around 150 and leaving out the Honey Malt. The champagne yeast eats a narrower range of sugars than the Nottinham, although it does have a higher alcohol tolerance. To get this to ferment as much as you want, you'll probably need to get some WLP099.

brewbeerry 01-15-2013 11:15 PM

look up "freeze concentration" or eisbeer for techniques... I just eised a 1.087 malt forward ale 2 days ago, based off Steve's 50 Eisbock. Was fermented with US 05 at cooler temperatures and went down to 1.012 giving me 10.4% ABV. In primary for 5 weeks (was crystal clear) then racked into a plastic jug and stuck in freezer til the whole thing was as frozen as it was going to get (at 10% ABV, there was enough alcohol in it where parts were still slushy). I used wood skewers to poke holes through the slush and turned upside down in a funnel, collected half the 1 gallon batch, giving me 1/2 gallon off about 16% ABV goodness.

Am aging it but had a leftover sample from bottling and sipped on it in rocks glass- it was AMAZING! malty, not cloyingly sweet but still sweet, very smooth. Some fruity flavors with strong raisin and caramel followed by a pleasant, warming alcohol burn. Will definitely be doing this again. Like you're thinking, I didnt even want to worry about carbonating so bottled still, would probably be best to have a keg to attempt doing so if you were to try.

this link has a crazier starting recipe (RIS) but is doing the same thing, only multiple times. gives good description of the flavors and someone also posted the classic video link to the Basic Brewing Eised-Barleywine episode on the first page (it also have some info on process and taste:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bi-polar-bear-30-abv-367718/

Tiroux 01-16-2013 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingwood-kid (Post 4789109)
Alcohol is less dense than water, so a beer that starts at 1.050 and finishes at 1.010 has much less residual sugar than a beer that starts at 1.120 and finishes at 1.010. I don't think you'll need to add any ingredients or use any procedures to get more residual sugars. I think you'll want to do the opposite, mashing around 150 and leaving out the Honey Malt. The champagne yeast eats a narrower range of sugars than the Nottinham, although it does have a higher alcohol tolerance. To get this to ferment as much as you want, you'll probably need to get some WLP099.

Champagne yeast goes to 18%, so since i'm going to about 15% I should be fine. Ale yeast should do the first 10-11%, so the Ale character will be there and Champagne yeast will not change too much the flavor profile, I think. I've heard that WLP099 is a hard-to-use strains. Wich is really not with notthingham and Champagne.

Tiroux 01-16-2013 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewbeerry (Post 4789278)
look up "freeze concentration" or eisbeer for techniques... I just eised a 1.087 malt forward ale 2 days ago, based off Steve's 50 Eisbock. Was fermented with US 05 at cooler temperatures and went down to 1.012 giving me 10.4% ABV. In primary for 5 weeks (was crystal clear) then racked into a plastic jug and stuck in freezer til the whole thing was as frozen as it was going to get (at 10% ABV, there was enough alcohol in it where parts were still slushy). I used wood skewers to poke holes through the slush and turned upside down in a funnel, collected half the 1 gallon batch, giving me 1/2 gallon off about 16% ABV goodness.

Am aging it but had a leftover sample from bottling and sipped on it in rocks glass- it was AMAZING! malty, not cloyingly sweet but still sweet, very smooth. Some fruity flavors with strong raisin and caramel followed by a pleasant, warming alcohol burn. Will definitely be doing this again. Like you're thinking, I didnt even want to worry about carbonating so bottled still, would probably be best to have a keg to attempt doing so if you were to try.

this link has a crazier starting recipe (RIS) but is doing the same thing, only multiple times. gives good description of the flavors and someone also posted the classic video link to the Basic Brewing Eised-Barleywine episode on the first page (it also have some info on process and taste:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bi-polar-bear-30-abv-367718/


Yhea, Of course I know ahah. I will eisbock a doppelbock in the next week. A tiny part of it will go up to 20%, to bottle in little bellissima wine bottle (200ml). Sip sip sip!

I'm also planning to do some eisbocks, eistouts and eisporter in the next months (well, take a part of the batch, and eisbock it for few bottles). If one or more come out really great, we'll do it full-batch.

But now my idea is to create something that is not eisbock, but really more like a liquor.

MVKTR2 01-16-2013 09:21 AM

As kingwood said, you won't need to worry about adding things to make it sweet or to retain body. The struggle with a large bier is to get it to ferment down low enough to not be cloying.

I've not ventured into the world of trying to make 'extreme' brews, which I think this falls under, but have made big beers. I'd simplify the recipe to reflect something more like this:
Base malt (70-90%)
Munich malt light (25-10%)
Caramel malt (use sparingly as you don't want to add unnecessary unfermentable sugars trying to avoid cloying. however there are some important flavor notes you might want thus I'd keep it to no more than 10 oz of crystal malt or 3%)
Roast malt (for color/flavor if you desire 1-3%)
Sugar be it honey, maple syrup, or table sugar (at least 10% more like 15-17% to help it dry out)

Mash at 148 to get things fermentable, skip the step and just go 149 or less for 90 minutes.

Basically if you get a 1.120 beer to ferment down to 1.022 or so you've done something!

runs4beer 01-16-2013 09:44 AM

Didn't see you indicating the use of oxygen, you'll want to hit it with O2 as soon as it's in the formentor and ever 6-8 hours until it starts going (if you're not up to speed w/ O2 and high gravity brewing search for it). And you'll most likely want to brew a small beer to get enough yeast, I'd have more confidence in that then dry yeast.

Tiroux 01-16-2013 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by runs4beer (Post 4790694)
Didn't see you indicating the use of oxygen, you'll want to hit it with O2 as soon as it's in the formentor and ever 6-8 hours until it starts going (if you're not up to speed w/ O2 and high gravity brewing search for it). And you'll most likely want to brew a small beer to get enough yeast, I'd have more confidence in that then dry yeast.

Well I forgot to mention it. I will probably brew a 4-5% beer with Notthingham and pitch the big beer on the cake.

As for the O2, I don't have equipment to inject O2, but I will vigourusly shake it often. I did a 11% imperial porter once with this method and went from 1105 to 1030 within a week or day, then 1025 at final.

eksf26 01-16-2013 03:29 PM

Why don't you try using White Labs super high gravity yeast?

Tiroux 01-16-2013 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eksf26 (Post 4791566)
Why don't you try using White Labs super high gravity yeast?

I said before.


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