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-   -   Looking for Cuvee van de Kaiser Blue Clone (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/looking-cuvee-van-de-kaiser-blue-clone-371354/)

MrSpiffy 12-02-2012 04:42 AM

Looking for Cuvee van de Kaiser Blue Clone
I just tried Cuvee van de Keizer Blauw (Blue) tonight, and MAN was it good! It's a very sweet beer, but I love sweet stuff and didn't find it overly cloying. It's just a sipping beer. It could even be dessert! But I can't seem to find jack on a recipe that's even in the same realm as this beer, let alone a clone of it. Does anyone have a recipe to clone this beer, or at least make something similar to it?

MrSpiffy 12-04-2012 06:36 PM

No one...? I'm drooling just thinking about this beer again... :tank:

MrSpiffy 01-04-2013 09:43 PM

Starting to think there may not be a clone for this beer, yet. Anyone have some thoughts on where to start with a recipe?

Alcohol is quite high, at around 11%. I also have a couple bottles of this beer, so I can drink one and harvest yeast from the bottle. But, I've never developed a recipe before. So, I'm unsure of where to begin picking out different grains or hops.

Their description may help slightly. From the Het Anker web site:
  • Type of beer: Dark special beer
  • Colour: Ruby red
  • Alcohol: 11% abv
  • Hops: Exclusively Belgian hops
  • Wort extract: 24 Plato
  • Fermentation: High fermentation
  • Lagering: 2 weeks

I'm was thinking hops might include Styrian Goldings, since that's a typical Belgian Strong Dark type of hop. But that's not a Belgian hop variety. The only ones listed in the HBT wiki from Belgium include:
  • Groene Bel
  • Nordgaard
  • Record

The only one of the three listed that is still grown commercially is Record hops. However, it's always possible that the brewery has their own locally-grown patch of the other varieties. But, I have no way to know that, at least from what I've found so far. I've also found that other varieties are now being grown in Belgium, so it's not a huge deal to try a different variety. The beer also didn't seem to have a very high amount of IBUs when I drank it. It was very malty and sweet, with delicious caramel, stone fruit, and raisin-like flavors, but very little bitterness. I'd guess IBUs were in the 20's, tops. I figure that Styrian Goldings and Hallertau would make good choices for the hops, since they're mostly aromatic hops.

My other concern is that this beer is quite sweet. So, I'm not sure if they performed a higher-temp mash to preserve body and sweetness, or if they achieved the sweetness using other methods, or perhaps they added sugars to boost the alcohol content after a higher-temp mash.

I also noticed some light spice flavors, like clove and such in the beer. Not sure how to replicate that, or if it comes strictly from the yeast being used, as I know the Belgian yeasts tend to give off the clove and banana flavors during fermentation.

Carbonation was lighter. It wasn't very fizzy, and had a little less than is typical for a standard ale. I'm not very familiar with carbonation levels in Belgians. But I've noticed the heavier ones tend to be thick, creamy, and less-carbonated. But feel free to correct me here. I did note that one site mentioned additional fermentation in the bottles, which may be true since this beer is corked like Champagne, with the wire cap and all.

I've looked at a few other recipes and noticed the recipe for Chimay Blue, which I may have to buy a bottle of the actual Chimay Blue to try for a comparison. But the notes that I've seen tend to have some significant differences from the CvdKB.

As a start, I figured there must be pilsner malt in there as a base, so I thought about maybe Franco-Belges Pilsen Malt or Bohemian Pilsner Malt. Then some type of cara malt, something like Special B, Belgian Caramunich, or even Caramel 80L or 120L, for that raisin and stone fruit flavor. Though, what about something like Abbey Malt?

I'm not sure on ratios, but here's a first stab at a BSDA recipe for a 5-gallon batch:

15lbs Franco-Belges Pilsen
1lb Special B
0.38lbs Belgian Aromatic Malt
2lbs Belgian candi sugar (med to dark color, added during fermentation)
1oz Styrian Goldings (60 min)
0.5oz Hallertau (30 min)
0.5oz Hallertau (10 min)

Mash @ 152F @ 60-75 min

Estimated OG: 1.095
Estimated IBU: 23.6
Yeast: harvested from Cuvee van de Keizer Blauw, stepped up into starter size
Estimating the sugar will raise ABV to about 10%-11% or so.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions? Again, I'm just kinda going off of what I'm seeing in ingredient characteristics and other recipes. Any help putting a recipe together would be awesome!

MrSpiffy 01-05-2013 06:34 PM

Well, I've taken a chance and written the Het Anker brewery to see if they might share some information with me. If I find anything out, I'll be sure to pass it along in this thread.

jaapie 03-20-2013 06:05 PM


Originally Posted by MrSpiffy (Post 4750278)
Well, I've taken a chance and written the Het Anker brewery to see if they might share some information with me. If I find anything out, I'll be sure to pass it along in this thread.

Did they ever reply to your email regarding the yeast? Probably a long shot.

MrSpiffy 03-21-2013 01:24 PM

I had inquired about their ingredients, as a whole. But, unfortunately, I have not gotten a reply back. :( It would have really been cool to get a response, even if they hadn't provided any information. Oh well.

jaapie 03-25-2013 06:16 PM

I have emailed quite a few breweries, and never heard anything. Dont take it to heart. Its rude though.

MrSpiffy 03-26-2013 01:04 PM

I figured I probably wouldn't hear anything back or get denied information, but it's still a little disappointing.

Anyone have some thoughts on how this brew should go? Feedback on my potential starting recipe above?

jaapie 03-26-2013 01:52 PM

http://www.hobbybrouwen.nl/forum/index.php?topic=16586.0 Check this Dutch forum about the same topic. They have a picture of a recipe (see here: http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5486/cuvee008largeew6.jpg) but they are saying they are unsure if it is authentic and if it is for the blue clone. The recipe the guys brewed in the end is posted in the thread. You can probably translate using google translate. let me know if it works for you.

Edit: apparently the corn is important

MrSpiffy 12-24-2013 10:51 PM

Holy moly! How did I miss your post, jaapie?!? Wish I had seen this earlier! I'll have to do a little translation, but I may just give this recipe a try. I'll see if I can translate the notes and post them here for others to take a peek at.

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