Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway - Enter Now!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Lactobacillus

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-14-2006, 04:19 AM   #1
jager
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gonzales, Louisiana
Posts: 83
Default Lactobacillus

Say I wanted to make a clone of Guinness Extra Stout could I add lactose to the wort and then add lactobacillus to the fermenter to give it a little sourness?

Will lactobacillus consume maltose?






Dave

__________________
jager is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 04:26 AM   #2
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southwest
Posts: 13,909
Liked 605 Times on 375 Posts
Likes Given: 54

Default

I suppose you could do that, but I wouldn't. Guinness doesn't have a sour note, rather it's roasted and malty, a touch bitter with a dry finish.

For the bitter roasted flavors, use roasted and/or black barley. Some chocolate malt wouldn't hurt, and you could even add some coffee or espresso to the mix. Add an English variety of hops early in the boil to extract bitterness, but go easy on (or omit) the finishing hops.

I bet I just raised a few eyebrows and conjured more questions in your brain, but that's all part of the forum!

__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc
Yuri_Rage is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 05:28 AM   #3
Brewtopia
"Greenwood Aged Beer"
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brewtopia's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,307
Liked 13 Times on 8 Posts

Default

I don't think it would be out of line to add lactobacillus to a portion of the mash and allow to sour. I do detect the slight sourness in Guiness Draught. Even BJCP style guidlines would lead you to believe that this is acceptable in a Dry Irish Stout.

The dryness comes from the use of roasted unmalted
barley in addition to pale malt, moderate to high hop bitterness, and
good attenuation. Flaked unmalted barley may also be used to add
creaminess. A small percentage (perhaps 3%) of soured beer is
sometimes added for complexity (generally by Guinness only). Water
typically has moderate carbonate hardness, although high levels will
not give the classic dry finish.
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.036 – 1.050
IBUs: 30 – 45 FG: 1.007 – 1.011
SRM: 25 – 40+ ABV: 4 – 5%
Commercial Examples: Guinness Draught Stout (also canned),
Murphy's Stout, Beamish Stout, O’Hara’s Celtic Stout, Dorothy
Goodbody’s Wholesome Stout, Orkney Dragonhead Stout, Brooklyn
Dry Stout, Old Dominion Stout, Goose Island Dublin Stout, Arbor
Brewing Faricy Fest Irish Stout

Brewtopia is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 11:41 AM   #4
the_bird
10th-Level Beer Nerd
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
the_bird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Adams, MA
Posts: 20,490
Liked 361 Times on 297 Posts
Likes Given: 97

Default

I have read that Guiness does include, intentionally, some soured beer. Thing is, I'm pretty sure the sour beer they add to the mix is then pasturized. If you just add a little bit of infected beer, how do you prevent the whole beer from becoming infected? A Lambic-Guiness does not sound like Good Drinks.

If you wanted to do this, I'd expose a small amount of the beer to the bacteria (maybe 5%), let it sour, then figure out the best way of killing the bacteria (heating the beer? one of those chemicals that winemakers use?) before adding it back.

__________________
Come join Yankee Ingenuity!

"I'm kind of toasted. But I looked at my watch and it's only 6:30 so I can't stop drinking yet." - Yooper's Bob
"Brown eye finally recovered after the abuse it endured in Ptown last weekend, but it took almost a full week." - Paulie
"no, he just doesn't speak 'stupid'. i, however, am fluent...." - motobrewer
"... I'll go both ways." - Melana

That'll do, Pigley. That'll do.
the_bird is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 12:39 PM   #5
ayrton
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
ayrton's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 809
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

As I recall it, Papazian's Toad Spit Stout recipe (a Guinness clone) says something like, "The only thing this recipe lacks is the unique 'tang' that the real thing has. This is achieved by adding three percent pasteurized soured beer."

At least that's what I think it says. It's at home and I'm at work, so I could be wrong.

__________________
Primary 1: None
Primary 2: None
Secondary 1: None
Conditioning: None
Drinking: None (!)
Recently Kicked: None
Up Next: Beats me!
ayrton is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 12:59 PM   #6
the_bird
10th-Level Beer Nerd
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
the_bird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Adams, MA
Posts: 20,490
Liked 361 Times on 297 Posts
Likes Given: 97

Default

I think that's where I remember that from. I haven't been able to find my copy of the Bible for months, though. I'm sure of it, though.

__________________
Come join Yankee Ingenuity!

"I'm kind of toasted. But I looked at my watch and it's only 6:30 so I can't stop drinking yet." - Yooper's Bob
"Brown eye finally recovered after the abuse it endured in Ptown last weekend, but it took almost a full week." - Paulie
"no, he just doesn't speak 'stupid'. i, however, am fluent...." - motobrewer
"... I'll go both ways." - Melana

That'll do, Pigley. That'll do.
the_bird is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 01:29 PM   #7
Rhoobarb
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Rhoobarb's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 3,573
Liked 17 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Guinness does have a 'tang' to it. Like others here, I'd read the same things about the use of sour beer. Then I read that Dan Listermann advises using Mich. Weyermann Acidulated malt to get that tang. I tried that and it is now a staple of my Irish stout! I use ~6 oz. for a five gallon batch. Sure beats adding sour beer or lacto!
__________________
Rhoobarb is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 02:22 PM   #8
olllllo
[]-O-[]
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
olllllo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 13,514
Liked 125 Times on 106 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

The soured beer for Guinness is only used in certain varieties of their bottled export and in Africa. I read at the Guinness storehouse tour that this style is very popular in Nigeria where the Guinness folks see this as a growth market.

__________________
Rabbit And Coyote Schwag
Rob - Phoenix Ambassador to Milwaukee
Where did your avatar go?
Ginger Beer for Moscow Mules Bacon Vodka
Twitter
olllllo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 02:31 PM   #9
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Southwest
Posts: 13,909
Liked 605 Times on 375 Posts
Likes Given: 54

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
I have read that Guiness does include, intentionally, some soured beer. Thing is, I'm pretty sure the sour beer they add to the mix is then pasturized. If you just add a little bit of infected beer, how do you prevent the whole beer from becoming infected? A Lambic-Guiness does not sound like Good Drinks.

If you wanted to do this, I'd expose a small amount of the beer to the bacteria (maybe 5%), let it sour, then figure out the best way of killing the bacteria (heating the beer? one of those chemicals that winemakers use?) before adding it back.
You mention pasteurization as if it's some kind of magical process that isn't attainable at home. However, it's as simple as heating the beer to ~160-170 and maintaining that temperature for about 10 minutes. The heat will kill the bacteria, and you can add the soured beer without worry.

As to my original post in this thread...I stand corrected about the use of lactobacillus in Guinness!
__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc
Yuri_Rage is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-14-2006, 02:32 PM   #10
the_bird
10th-Level Beer Nerd
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
the_bird's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Adams, MA
Posts: 20,490
Liked 361 Times on 297 Posts
Likes Given: 97

Default

Oh, I know. I'm just not sure whether heating the beer will impact the soured portion in any other way, which is why I was wondering if it was the *best* way to do it.

__________________
Come join Yankee Ingenuity!

"I'm kind of toasted. But I looked at my watch and it's only 6:30 so I can't stop drinking yet." - Yooper's Bob
"Brown eye finally recovered after the abuse it endured in Ptown last weekend, but it took almost a full week." - Paulie
"no, he just doesn't speak 'stupid'. i, however, am fluent...." - motobrewer
"... I'll go both ways." - Melana

That'll do, Pigley. That'll do.
the_bird is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lactobacillus Jonnio General Beer Discussion 9 01-31-2013 02:04 PM
When to Add 5335 Lactobacillus?? Jsta Porter Lambic & Wild Brewing 4 04-08-2009 02:31 PM
Wyeast Lactobacillus starter Monchoon Recipes/Ingredients 4 01-25-2008 10:28 PM
lactobacillus and O2 the_bird General Techniques 8 01-13-2008 03:20 PM