I ordered from morebeer, 2 batches worth and some caps all for about 70$, but still out of Glacier hops. Not bad on price I think-- cheaper than my LHBS. I did start brewing the koelsch with malts from the local homebrew store though, and all whole hops. The recipe I used was a Kolsch out of the homebrewer's recipie guide, but i substituted the wheat (i'm not into wheat) with Amber malt extract. I didn't strain the hops out until moving to the second fermenter. Will that bitter the beer too much or make it somehow off? I used White labs yeast, with an 18 hour starter, and saved the yeast after primary using directions i found on this site for washing and re-pitching years. Hope to do a Duesseldorfer altbeer next using the saved koelsch yeast I have in the fridge. If anyone cares to chime in, please do so.