The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Kansas City, MO Water Profile help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-17-2013, 04:31 AM   #1
kchomebrew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 455
Liked 39 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Kansas City, MO Water Profile help

I've never used brewing salts as I've been told the water profile for Kansas City, MO is pretty good for brewing most any style. I've only used campden tablets to knock out the chlorine/chloramine on past brews. As I've progressed in home-brewing, I'm certainly becoming more interested in water profile and fitting it to a style with appropriate additions. I'm using Bru n' Water software and finding it difficult to get a clear idea on what I need to add because the KC, MO water report doesn't show everything I need to know.

I went ahead and ordered a test kit from Ward Labs and once it arrives I'll send it off. I'll share the results on this thread when I receive it back (I'm on Jackson County - KC, MO water for those in the same boat).

Water profile for Kansas City, MO is posted here:

https://www.kcwaterservices.org/wp-c...05/wqr2013.pdf

What are your thoughts on this water ? Specifically, what additions would you recommend for hoppier profile beers, belgian styles (specifically saison, wit, pale), darker styles, lighter styles (kolsch, blonde), and wheats.

I also read a good article here:
http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/31...-from-the-pros

and here

http://www.themadfermentationist.com...-has-made.html

Appreciate any advice if you brew with a similar water profile. Otherwise, I guess I'll try to figure it out on my own and post what I learn on this thread. Thanks !

__________________
kchomebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-06-2013, 11:45 AM   #2
kchomebrew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 455
Liked 39 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Test kit arrived today (I ordered it last week, actually). Says I'll get results within one day after they receive it. Sending off today. I'll post results when I get the data back.

__________________
kchomebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 12:07 AM   #3
kchomebrew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 455
Liked 39 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Received the results. Interested in feedback anyone might have on additions I should use for Belgian styles (Blonde, saison, tripel, quad), IPAs, lighter american styles, wheats, stouts, etc. (for people in Jackson County KC, MO, this is probably what you have):
pH 9.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 211
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.35
Cations / Anions, me/L / 3.6 /3.3
Sodium, Na 28
Potassium, K 6
Calcium, Ca 29
Magnesium, Mg 6
Total Hardness, CaCO3 98
Nitrate, NO3-N 3.9 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 27
Chloride, Cl 15
Carbonate, CO3 22
Bicarbonate, HCO3 28
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 59
Total Phosphorus, P 0.50
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

kchomebrew is offline
highgravitybacon Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 02:32 AM   #4
Schumed
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Schumed's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas City, Mo
Posts: 892
Liked 39 Times on 33 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

Good data....I started to look into water chemistry but decided for a 5 gallon batch it wasn't going to make a whole lot of difference with treating...I do use a water filter to remove chlorine and such....but KC Water has been pretty solid for me have medals to back it up.

I'm curious to hear others opinion on the subject based on the numbers you posted

I will say Bryce Schaefter, who is starting up Cinder Block Brewery did a little water presentation for our club up North and it was pretty impressive. I would try reaching out to him

__________________

"To alcohol! The cause of... and solution to... all of life's problems,"

Schumed is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 03:22 AM   #5
jesserizzo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 87
Liked 12 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

It looks like we have pretty middle of the road water. According to Palmer, we would have a mash pH of 5.75 with 100% base malt. To brew something like that you would want to lower the mash pH a bit, and for a beer with lots of dark roasted grains you would want to bump the pH up. A beer with a small amount of lightly toasted grains would probably be right on the money.

Also looks like we're pretty low in Sulfate, which can accentuate bitterness, so maybe could be beneficial to add some of that to IPAs. We are also low in magnesium, which is an important yeast nutrient, so probably every beer could benefit from more of that.

More here: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html

http://www.amazon.com/Water-A-Compre.../dp/0937381993

Roughly where are you in KC. If you are far from me, maybe I'll get a water report too, and we can see how much variance there is in the city. I'm in Waldo area, south KC.

__________________
jesserizzo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 03:52 AM   #6
kchomebrew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 455
Liked 39 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I'm in roughly the same area as you. Near Waldo/Brookside/Plaza - South KC.

kchomebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 03:54 AM   #7
kchomebrew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 455
Liked 39 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I've been messing around with various water calculators and am curious what those out there have found successful/accurate. Using BruNwater spreadsheet but it's fairly complicated and I'm not sure I'm filling it out accurately. The one on brewersfriend seems very simple. Any thoughts out there ?

__________________
Basement E-Brewery Build
True TDD-2 Kegerator Remodel
Primary:
Nelson Sauvin Pale Ale
Secondary:
Belgian Golden Ale w/Mosaic hops
Kegged:
Saison, Amarillo/Simcoe IPA, Hefe, Kolsch
kchomebrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 12:34 PM   #8
AmandaK
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: KCMO
Posts: 1,501
Liked 136 Times on 103 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

My water report from Ward Labs - fwiw, I live near 435 and Wornall.

pH 9.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 167
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.28
Cations / Anions, me/L 2.6 / 2.7
Sodium, Na 27
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 24
Magnesium, Mg 2
Total Hardness, CaCO3 68
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.3 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 28
Chloride, Cl 8
Carbonate, CO3 14
Bicarbonate, HCO3 15
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 36

What I do is use the Bru'n Water spreadsheet (if it's too complicated, post over on the AHA forum - Dr. Martin Brungard will answer any question you have). From that, I've figured out to use lactic acid to lower my ridiculously high pH down to around 6. I also use 0.25 g/gal CaCl2 to get the calcium I need for yeast health and flocculation. I like to keep it simple.

__________________
BJCP National Beer Judge
On deck: German Pilsner, CAP, Golden Strong
Fermenting: MOVING
Souring: #32 Lambic 2.0, #49 Lambic 3.0, #60 3763 Flanders Brown, #61 WLP665 Flanders Brown
Conditioning: #38 Golden Sour, #58 Hooch Cider, #79 Dopplebock, #84 Amy Cider
Drinkin': #16 Lambic 1.0 (Drunk Monk BOS), #84 Fall Cider
AmandaK is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 12:40 PM   #9
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,032
Liked 4197 Times on 3055 Posts
Likes Given: 778

Default

Don't forget that since Ward Labs provides S04 as So4-S that you need to multiply your number by three for the spreadsheets. That's actually moderately high sulfate level, and you may find it a bit too much for light beers like cream ales or light lagers.

Pretty good basic water- I'm jealous!

__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-20-2013, 12:44 PM   #10
AmandaK
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: KCMO
Posts: 1,501
Liked 136 Times on 103 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jesserizzo View Post
Also looks like we're pretty low in Sulfate, which can accentuate bitterness, so maybe could be beneficial to add some of that to IPAs. We are also low in magnesium, which is an important yeast nutrient, so probably every beer could benefit from more of that.

More here: http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15.html

http://www.amazon.com/Water-A-Compre.../dp/0937381993
When you read his water report, you should be careful to note that the 'sulfate' is reported as SO4-S, which will need to be multiplied by 3 to get sulfate as SO4. Using this, that brings my sulfate to 84ppm. This is in the acceptable range for normal beers (50-150ppm per Palmer). EDIT: Yoop beat me to it!

Also, that book has not been released. I've talked to Palmer myself about it - seems it just keeps getting pushed back. It was supposed to be this spring, then this September, now I think it's next spring...
__________________
BJCP National Beer Judge
On deck: German Pilsner, CAP, Golden Strong
Fermenting: MOVING
Souring: #32 Lambic 2.0, #49 Lambic 3.0, #60 3763 Flanders Brown, #61 WLP665 Flanders Brown
Conditioning: #38 Golden Sour, #58 Hooch Cider, #79 Dopplebock, #84 Amy Cider
Drinkin': #16 Lambic 1.0 (Drunk Monk BOS), #84 Fall Cider
AmandaK is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kansas City, KS water report homebrew816 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 11 07-23-2013 01:38 AM
Cooper City, FL Water Profile Mateo General Beer Discussion 1 09-21-2011 03:48 PM
Could someone take a look at my city's water profile?!!! BenjaminJonah All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 5 05-09-2011 05:23 PM
Jersey City Brew Water Profile jacko623 General Beer Discussion 0 05-04-2011 12:09 AM
Obtaining city water profile msarro General Beer Discussion 4 03-14-2011 04:34 PM