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KingBrianI · 02-12-2011, 02:39 AM

I've been looking at a lot of historical english ale recipes lately, and it seems like most, if not all use invert sugar in one form or another. I've even seen some articles suggesting that some type of simple sugar is almost a necessity for a true british ale. Read some of the articles at this link for more info: http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/search/label/invert%20sugar . I just used the recipe found here : http://www.unholymess.com/blog/beer-brewing-info/making-brewers-invert to make up some no. 2 invert sugar. It tastes really nice, but has a bit of a sourish, acidic twang. I'm wondering if anyone has created invert sugar like this before (using an acid and constant temp, not DAP and varying temps) and if there are any methods to alkalize it after inversion. I'm thinking about something along the lines of adding CaCO3 to raise the pH and get it to lose the twang and bring out some of the other flavors? Does anyone know how it is made commercially? Do they neutralize it or leave it acidic? My plan is to use it in a triple chocolate stout and between the cocoa and the invert sugar, I'm afraid it will be too "twangy" and not smooth and creamy.

I'd like for this thread to not only be used to answer my questions, but to stockpile any knowledge or experience with invert sugar. I'd like to keep the subject on british invert sugar, not belgian candi syrup since that has been discussed at length. Any information, experience, comments, or whatever is welcome.

lumpher · 02-12-2011, 02:45 AM

all you need is table sugar, water, and lemon juice. for clear invert sugar, don't bother. use sugar. 4 cups sugar, 1 1/2 cups water, 1/4 teaspoon lemon juice. Bring to a boil. Then simmer for 1/2 to 2 hours, stirring occasionally, depending on clear, light, or dark invert

dzlater · 02-12-2011, 12:33 PM

I don't have answers to your technical questions, but I made some the other day using this
http://www.chefeddy.com/2009/11/invert-sugar/
I brought the temp, up to around 350f and got a nice amber colored syrup.

unholymess · 02-13-2011, 12:10 PM

KingBrian - that unholymess.com link is mine, glad you found it. The information there mostly came from Shut Up About Barclay Perkins, with help from one of the recipe authors as well. I've never had the acidic twang before - what type of sugar & acid did you use? What amount in how many pounds of sugar solution?

As for neutralizing the pH... if it really is too much acid as a problem, I know there are some references to the major invert producers adding chalk (CaC03) - but I don't have a good link for the amount.

lumpher: Damnit No, table sugar is not going to give you the right end product. See <a href="http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2009/06/refined-sugar-vs-invert-sugar.html"> here</a> The only way you can make use of inverted white can sugar is via the dilution method with good blackstrap molasses.

KingBrianI · 02-13-2011, 01:03 PM

Hey unholy, thanks for posting. I made my batch with 1 lb of sugar, mostly turbinado, but I ran out at about 0.8 lbs and used demerara for the remainder. I mixed it with 2 cups of water and a little under half a teaspoon of 88% lactic acid. I cooked it for an hour and 45 minutes, trying to hold the temp at 140, but having it occasionally rise to over 150. I didn't get any burnt flavors though. The acidic twang isn't too bad, but it is very similar to what I get when I make belgian candi syrup with DAP and white sugar. Reading some of the recent posts on attempting belgian d2 syrup made me thing that neutralizing the syrup could be how the belgian producers got the bottom notes in their product. I feel like neutralizing it would reduce some of the bright flavors and bring out more of the deeper flavors. I wasn't sure how commercial makers do it and I'm not even sure what the commercial products produced in England taste like, but the hunch I have is that they might neutralize it like you said.

unholymess · 02-16-2011, 06:38 PM

I wonder if you made a typo there - did you really mean 140/150? If so - that might not be hot enough to really get to the right spot. Most data I've seen recommends 240F.

KingBrianI · 02-16-2011, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unholymess

I wonder if you made a typo there - did you really mean 140/150? If so - that might not be hot enough to really get to the right spot. Most data I've seen recommends 240F.

Oops, yep I meant 240 and 250. My bad. I also did not use the corn syrup, since if I managed to invert the sugar correctly, it shouldn't recrystalize. So far it hasn't.

**jbrookeiv** · 02-16-2011, 07:00 PM

Subbed.

bierhaus15 · 02-19-2011, 08:25 PM

Ok, I'll bite. I figure since I spend so much time brewing English ales, I might as well start making my own invert syrup instead of buying it. Can anyone tell me how theirs has come out in the final product or any other tips on making it?

I just bought 2.5 lbs of demerara today and will try to make some tomorrow.

Freezeblade · 02-20-2011, 05:13 AM

I'll bite on this as well. it sounds like the sort of sugar you want to use for this is sold around here has "evaporated cane juice" which is quite a bit lighter than turbinado or demerara, but certainly not as white or refined looking as the normal C&H sugar and other refined sugars you buy in the store (http://www.multipleorganics.com/images/products/65.jpg) is the sort of color it is.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51WxPQkoBUL.jpg is what I've seen in the health food stores and the "organic/health-nut" part of my local grocery stores. However, it is sold in the mexican market for far cheaper as "zulka" or Azucar Morena. http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/2903559653_819effc170.jpg I'll try to make some of this later, but this really sounds like the type of sugar we're looking for here.