International flavoring units?

**rocketman768** · 08-07-2009, 04:02 PM

What's the rule on how much flavor and aroma a particular hop addition adds? I know this will vary between hop varieties, but is there at least a rule of thumb? How many ounces of cascade per gallon do I need at 15 min to get good flavor you know?

**arturo7** · 08-07-2009, 04:25 PM

Good question.

IBUs seem pretty cut and dried, but is there a similar scale for flavoring or aroma? I would guess it would be different between types as well as different plants of the same type.

How different? NFI...

ArcaneXor · 08-07-2009, 04:26 PM

That completely depends on the beer, specifically its malt backbone, and the flavor of the hops - some are pretty delicate, others are just little flavor bombs in pellet form. So I don't think there is an overall rule of thumb. If you want lots of flavor, try first-wort hopping and/or dry-hopping instead of playing with your regular flavor addition.

**Edcculus** · 08-07-2009, 04:27 PM

You are probably referring to International Bittering Units or IBU's. I highly recommend getting a program like Beersmith for calculating hop additions. There is no rule of thumb. Bittering is not linear.

I just realized you were talking about flavor additions after I wrote up a whole explaiation on AA% and hop utilization.

There is absolutely no way to calculate how much flavor a hop will add. Boiling volatilizes the delicate flavors though. If you want a big hop aroma/flavor, I suggest dry hopping.

**rocketman768** · 08-07-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edcculus

I highly recommend getting a program like Beersmith for calculating hop additions.

Nah, I'll use my own software

(see sig)

Quote:

There is absolutely no way to calculate how much flavor a hop will add. Boiling volatilizes the delicate flavors though. If you want a big hop aroma/flavor, I suggest dry hopping.

Yeah. What I'm getting at is: what are the typical quantities involved here? Dry hop, ok, but how much?

**Revvy** · 08-07-2009, 04:35 PM

Would this chart maybe help you?

It really is going to depend on the OG of the beer....and any dominant grain flavors...it's sort of a matter of personal like and dislike more than anything. Taste is pretty subjective.

**rocketman768** · 08-07-2009, 04:43 PM

Thanks Revvy. Seen and used that chart many times. However, most of the flavoring and aroma additions add very little IBUs (dry hopping adds 0), so I think the chart is unrelated to overall flavor and aroma.

**Edcculus** · 08-07-2009, 05:07 PM

I think it will probably come down to experience, just like cooking. Flavor and aroma are very subjective, which is why its difficult to quantify.

While science can go a long way to understand whats going on in cooking, how flavors are impacted etc, there is no formula for how much cayenne you put in blackened seasoning or fish sauce in Pad Thai. There are no International Peppering Units.

As a rule of thumb, most 5 gallon recipes I see use around 1-2 oz for dry hopping. 1/2-1 oz at flameout is pretty common. Amounts will increase depending on what beer you are making. A Pliny clone uses a ton of dry hops.

**rocketman768** · 08-07-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edcculus

I think it will probably come down to experience, just like cooking. Flavor and aroma are very objective, which is why its difficult to quantify.

While science can go a long way to understand whats going on in cooking, how flavors are impacted etc, there is no formula for how much cayenne you put in blackened seasoning or fish sauce in Pad Thai. There are no International Peppering Units.

Actually, there are. It's called the scoville scale and basically measures the concentration of capsaicin. Also, if you don't know how much salt to add to something, you can make a guess somewhere in the 50-500 mg salt per 100g of food. You can quantify many things in cooking, but no one really does it because we cook way more often than we brew beer (most people), and we have a much better intuition as well as more flexibility as to how these ingredients affect the final result.

Quote:

As a rule of thumb, most 5 gallon recipes I see use around 1-2 oz for dry hopping. 1/2-1 oz at flameout is pretty common. Amounts will increase depending on what beer you are making. A Pliny clone uses a ton of dry hops.

Awesome, thanks.

**weirdboy** · 08-07-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Flavor and aroma are very objective, which is why its difficult to quantify.

I think you mean subjective.

I have read somewhere that the aroma contribution is correlated with the amount of beta acids in the hops.