Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > How to make a Saison red?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-21-2010, 04:01 AM   #1
DeadHead_Brewering
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 30
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default How to make a Saison red?

Forum Folks,

In my quest to master the art and science of Saison brewing, both in the traditional and experimental sense; I'm looking for some variations.

Here's my Saison Brun, currently fermenting:
7.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 68.56 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 18.28 %
1.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 9.14 %
0.25 lb Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 2.29 %
0.19 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 1.74 %
2.75 oz Tettnang [3.20 %] (60 min) Hops 29.1 IBU
Est Color: 13.8 SRM
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711)

I'd like to see if I can make a red Saison, on top of the Saison Brun yeast cake. But I'm not sure how to go about getting that red color without adding any residual sweetnes - I like my Saison's bone dry.

At first I thought Weyermann's Carared might do the trick, but that would introduce some sweetness...how much sweetness would depend on quantity. Since I've never used it, it would be a guess on my part.
The other option is using black patent or debittered black malt...but I want none of the roasty or toasty.

Another thought...since it is a Farmhouse Ale...perhaps some beet juice to add red to it! Plus it may have some added sugar for the yeast to work with. Anyone have the good fortune to try Furthermore's Thermo Refur? http://www.furthermorebeer.com/beer/8 Now that is red!

What do the good folks of the forum think? I welcome any and all ideas...within reason of course!

__________________

"My brewing equipment is so ghetto, it makes Denny Conn look like John Blichmann" - T. M.


DeadHead_Brewering is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 12:03 PM   #2
rsmith179
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 973
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

It's really hard to get a true red color in your beer. The beet juice is a very interesting idea. Not sure what it tastes like, but it would probably do the trick in making your beer red.

I have also read that most brewers get a redish hue to their beers by using very dark malts in very small quantities. Some 450L roasted barley or black patent malt would do the trick. Because of their darkness, you won't need much at all so they won't contribute too much to your beer's flavor. And compared with using Cara, the black patent will turn out much drier due to the fact that you don't have to use a ton of sweet Cara to get that color.

Best of luck to you with this one. If you do get the Red Saison going, please make sure to post pics of the final product. I'm very interested to see how this one will come out for you.

__________________

"Brewers enjoy working to make beer as much as drinking beer instead of working."
-Harold Rudolph

rsmith179 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 12:31 PM   #3
nealf
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hiram, GA
Posts: 1,352
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts

Default

I would play around in beersmith and see how much Carafa III needs to be added to get the color you want. I have heard of several folks adding the Carafa III to the last 15 minutes of the mash so you get just color and no flavor.

__________________
nealf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 01:18 PM   #4
smokinghole
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
smokinghole's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lucid Dream Land
Posts: 2,913
Liked 122 Times on 101 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Use some cooked sugar I think that's how you'd get there. You could probably cook your own to a light molasses color and throw it in the brew pot giving you your color.

__________________

Going through life is hard.
Going through life stupid is harder.

smokinghole is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 01:47 PM   #5
DeadHead_Brewering
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 30
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Thank you for the input; I'll certainly post my results.

For the Saison Brun I used 3 ounces of Carafa III, this beer is most definitely brown.
I was actually trying for a black Saison, Beersmith was telling I should add 8 ounces of Carafa III to accomplish an SRM of 25 (yea, that's black). I was a bit nervous to add that much, not having used this malt before.
I did play around with varying amount of Black Patent and Debittered Black malt in Beersmith, but didn't see the redness I was looking for.
I guess I'll just have to experiment, what's the worst thing that can happen? Just end up with a cellar full of Saison's, in various hues....not a bad thing!

Thanks again for the time and ideas.

__________________

"My brewing equipment is so ghetto, it makes Denny Conn look like John Blichmann" - T. M.

DeadHead_Brewering is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 07:18 PM   #6
SumnerH
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA, USA
Posts: 2,058
Liked 26 Times on 23 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

From what I've heard, the beet idea should work with almost no change in flavor.

__________________

On deck: Little Bo Pils, Bretta Off Dead (Brett pale)
Secondary: Oude Bruin, Red Sky at Morning (Sour brown ale)
On tap: Saison Duphunk (sour), Amarillo Slim (IPA), Earl White (ginger/bergamot wit)
Bottled: Number 8 (Belgian Strong Dark Ale), Eternale (Barleywine), Ancho Villa (Ancho/pasilla/chocolate/cinnamon RIS), Oak smoked porter (1/2 maple bourbon oaked, 1/2 apple brandy oaked)

SumnerH is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 07:25 PM   #7
Homercidal
Moderator
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Homercidal's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Reed City, MI
Posts: 24,130
Liked 2347 Times on 1666 Posts
Likes Given: 1307

Default

I recently had a "Beet Wheat" at Right Brain Brewing in Traverse City. Interesting Flavor. it will DEFINITELY get you a red beer. The beet flavor in this beer was mild, but noticeable. The color was RED (with pink foam). I think it's worth playing with to see how much flavor you get with how much color.

__________________
I see lonely ships upon the water. Better save the women and children first. Sail away with someone's daughter. Better save the women and children first.

Homer's Brew Log
Homercidal is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 07:55 PM   #8
DeadHead_Brewering
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 30
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I thought of "candi syrup" as well. I did make some candi syrup, based on the techniques outlined here, which are excellent by the way: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-l...trient-114837/
I made the Deep Amber (290F) recipe for a Dubbel recipe; it sure added a nice reddish color AND a ton of dark fruit flavors, not something I'd want in a Saison.
Although, I did add two pounds to the Dubbel recipe - more is better right?
I can see how it could serve two purposes though, add fermentables to dry out the Saison and add color, not two pound though!

Thanks for the ideas...keep them coming.

__________________

"My brewing equipment is so ghetto, it makes Denny Conn look like John Blichmann" - T. M.

DeadHead_Brewering is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 08:06 PM   #9
Homercidal
Moderator
HBT_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Homercidal's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Reed City, MI
Posts: 24,130
Liked 2347 Times on 1666 Posts
Likes Given: 1307

Default

Red Food Coloring?

__________________
I see lonely ships upon the water. Better save the women and children first. Sail away with someone's daughter. Better save the women and children first.

Homer's Brew Log
Homercidal is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-21-2010, 08:22 PM   #10
smokinghole
Senior Member
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
smokinghole's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lucid Dream Land
Posts: 2,913
Liked 122 Times on 101 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Starbursts.....

__________________

Going through life is hard.
Going through life stupid is harder.

smokinghole is offline
lbloomer Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All-Grain - Saison Au Courant (Black Currant Saison) Homebrewtastic Recipes/Ingredients 6 05-31-2012 03:02 PM
Saison w/ WLP 565 Saison I yeast hapifam Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 20 06-07-2010 03:30 PM
Saison Troubadour (first Saison) steelerguy Recipes/Ingredients 2 03-12-2010 03:11 PM
Rye Saison? instereo13 Recipes/Ingredients 13 04-27-2008 03:35 AM
Saison brew hoperator Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 04-11-2008 01:44 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS