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-   -   How to make a Saison red? (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/how-make-saison-red-178931/)

DeadHead_Brewering 05-21-2010 03:01 AM

How to make a Saison red?
Forum Folks,

In my quest to master the art and science of Saison brewing, both in the traditional and experimental sense; I'm looking for some variations.

Here's my Saison Brun, currently fermenting:
7.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 68.56 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 18.28 %
1.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 9.14 %
0.25 lb Acid Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 2.29 %
0.19 lb Carafa III (525.0 SRM) Grain 1.74 %
2.75 oz Tettnang [3.20 %] (60 min) Hops 29.1 IBU
Est Color: 13.8 SRM
1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711)

I'd like to see if I can make a red Saison, on top of the Saison Brun yeast cake. But I'm not sure how to go about getting that red color without adding any residual sweetnes - I like my Saison's bone dry.

At first I thought Weyermann's Carared might do the trick, but that would introduce some sweetness...how much sweetness would depend on quantity. Since I've never used it, it would be a guess on my part.
The other option is using black patent or debittered black malt...but I want none of the roasty or toasty.

Another thought...since it is a Farmhouse Ale...perhaps some beet juice to add red to it! Plus it may have some added sugar for the yeast to work with. Anyone have the good fortune to try Furthermore's Thermo Refur? http://www.furthermorebeer.com/beer/8 Now that is red! :rockin:

What do the good folks of the forum think? I welcome any and all ideas...within reason of course!

rsmith179 05-21-2010 11:03 AM

It's really hard to get a true red color in your beer. The beet juice is a very interesting idea. Not sure what it tastes like, but it would probably do the trick in making your beer red.

I have also read that most brewers get a redish hue to their beers by using very dark malts in very small quantities. Some 450L roasted barley or black patent malt would do the trick. Because of their darkness, you won't need much at all so they won't contribute too much to your beer's flavor. And compared with using Cara, the black patent will turn out much drier due to the fact that you don't have to use a ton of sweet Cara to get that color.

Best of luck to you with this one. If you do get the Red Saison going, please make sure to post pics of the final product. I'm very interested to see how this one will come out for you.

nealf 05-21-2010 11:31 AM

I would play around in beersmith and see how much Carafa III needs to be added to get the color you want. I have heard of several folks adding the Carafa III to the last 15 minutes of the mash so you get just color and no flavor.

smokinghole 05-21-2010 12:18 PM

Use some cooked sugar I think that's how you'd get there. You could probably cook your own to a light molasses color and throw it in the brew pot giving you your color.

DeadHead_Brewering 05-21-2010 12:47 PM

Thank you for the input; I'll certainly post my results.

For the Saison Brun I used 3 ounces of Carafa III, this beer is most definitely brown.
I was actually trying for a black Saison, Beersmith was telling I should add 8 ounces of Carafa III to accomplish an SRM of 25 (yea, that's black). I was a bit nervous to add that much, not having used this malt before.
I did play around with varying amount of Black Patent and Debittered Black malt in Beersmith, but didn't see the redness I was looking for.
I guess I'll just have to experiment, what's the worst thing that can happen? Just end up with a cellar full of Saison's, in various hues....not a bad thing!

Thanks again for the time and ideas.

SumnerH 05-21-2010 06:18 PM

From what I've heard, the beet idea should work with almost no change in flavor.

Homercidal 05-21-2010 06:25 PM

I recently had a "Beet Wheat" at Right Brain Brewing in Traverse City. Interesting Flavor. it will DEFINITELY get you a red beer. The beet flavor in this beer was mild, but noticeable. The color was RED (with pink foam). I think it's worth playing with to see how much flavor you get with how much color.

DeadHead_Brewering 05-21-2010 06:55 PM

I thought of "candi syrup" as well. I did make some candi syrup, based on the techniques outlined here, which are excellent by the way: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-l...trient-114837/
I made the Deep Amber (290F) recipe for a Dubbel recipe; it sure added a nice reddish color AND a ton of dark fruit flavors, not something I'd want in a Saison.
Although, I did add two pounds to the Dubbel recipe - more is better right?
I can see how it could serve two purposes though, add fermentables to dry out the Saison and add color, not two pound though!

Thanks for the ideas...keep them coming.

Homercidal 05-21-2010 07:06 PM

Red Food Coloring?

smokinghole 05-21-2010 07:22 PM


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