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Old 10-17-2010, 01:31 AM   #1
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Default horchata Stout (Cinnamon, vanilla, sweet rice Stout)

I got the idea after looking at spiced beer recipes.

I'm thinking of a sweet porter/stout base and using some rice in a mini mash and adding vanilla bean and cinnamon sticks to the boil.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

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Old 10-17-2010, 01:58 AM   #2
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I've always enjoyed spicing "around" flavors. Sometimes the flavor you're going for will taste closer if you use something else that tastes like it. I made a "spiced" winter beer without any spices at all, just a spicy yeast and french oak.

Instead of adding real vanilla beans, think about using bourbon or heavy toasted american oak. Just adding rice will dry the beer out, but won't impart much flavor. I'm not sure what would taste like rice.

Cinnamon would be fine, but I wouldn't boil it. Most of spice is aroma, and those compounds are delicate. I'd just add to secondary.

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Old 10-17-2010, 05:37 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nateo View Post
I've always enjoyed spicing "around" flavors. Sometimes the flavor you're going for will taste closer if you use something else that tastes like it. I made a "spiced" winter beer without any spices at all, just a spicy yeast and french oak.

Instead of adding real vanilla beans, think about using bourbon or heavy toasted american oak. Just adding rice will dry the beer out, but won't impart much flavor. I'm not sure what would taste like rice.

Cinnamon would be fine, but I wouldn't boil it. Most of spice is aroma, and those compounds are delicate. I'd just add to secondary.
Believe it or not I add two whole vanilla beans to the secondary on a stout. It didn't taste a thing like vanilla. The bourbon Idea is good, especial if you make/buy vanilla bourbon. I like it!

How many sticks should I add to the secondary?

Horchata is made with rice flower and milk. The flavors of vanilla cinnamon come through strong but on a back bone of a milky, starchy body. I don't want horchata beer but a porter/stout that hints at it. Nateo says rice will not give me this flavor, I know lactose will give the sweet, but what about the milky starchy taste, any ideas?
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Old 10-17-2010, 02:30 PM   #4
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How many sticks? It depends how fresh they are. If you buy them at a grocer, I'd put a lot in. If you have a good spice store with really fresh cinnamon, 1-2 sticks.

IIRC, lactose adds more body than sweetness, but it would help get you in the right direction. Wits can be pretty starchy, so maybe some flaked wheat too? That, with a dextrinous mash, would be a good place to start.

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Old 10-17-2010, 08:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nateo View Post
How many sticks? It depends how fresh they are. If you buy them at a grocer, I'd put a lot in. If you have a good spice store with really fresh cinnamon, 1-2 sticks.

IIRC, lactose adds more body than sweetness, but it would help get you in the right direction. Wits can be pretty starchy, so maybe some flaked wheat too? That, with a dextrinous mash, would be a good place to start.
I only have mini mash technology! My next batch will be Belgian wit though. Wheat DME with a Belgian pilsner, flaked wheat and oats mini mash. This will be my first wheat beer so I'll know more after I brew it if the wheat flavor will do the trick. But I like the suggestion.

I was wondering about brown rice, do you think would this impart more of a rice flavor?

p.s. I never used rye, what kind of flavor would it add?
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Old 10-18-2010, 12:43 AM   #6
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FYI most "Wheat" DME is like 30-50% pils DME, so check your package/manufacturer and scale the pils malt accordingly. Belgian wits should be about 50% unmalted wheat, so it'd be hard to really nail it with extract. You can make a great weizen with extract though.

I've never tried brown rice, but that might be a good way to go. I've used rye. It's pretty similar to wheat, but subtly spicier. That might compliment the cinnamon well.

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Old 10-19-2010, 02:23 AM   #7
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All good info so far. I appreciate any thoughts people might have

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Old 10-19-2010, 03:12 AM   #8
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Do you think a good amount of Carapills would help the sweetness?

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Old 10-19-2010, 03:36 AM   #9
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If you're looking for sweetness, maybe add 1/4lb or so of "Honey Malt" grains (aka brumalt) and steep before the boil... I'd guess you'd want to raise 'em to above 155 or 160 degrees.

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Old 10-19-2010, 04:10 AM   #10
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I think I'll go from a stout/porter grist to a wit grist and add something for sweetness. Then spice with cinnamon and a vanilla bourbon.

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