ohiobrewtus

Recipes 

I'm either insane or I'm a genius (my money is on the former). I normally don't post recipes for review but before I put all these hops into one brew I thought I'd get some feedback form the collective.

Let me state that this beer is meant to be a completely over-the-top novelty beer. I know that this is an insane amount of hops and that's kind of the point.

This recipe is based on Hopacles '07 (reviews here and here), and given the feedback that I received I want to dry this beer out quite a bit so that it's not mistaken for a hopped up barleywine as the previous version finished much too thick and a bit sweet.

The mash temp and length are based upon a Biere de Garde that I did recently. I mashed it at 148 (or 149 - can't remember off the top of my head) for 90 minutes and added 1# of table sugar and 1# of Amber Belgian Candi sugar. It started at 1.080 and finished at 1.006. Obviously the Wyeast 3725 that I used with the Biere de Garde, combined with the fermentation temps that I used on the Biere de Garde were unique in getting that beer down that low. I'm looking to get Hopacles '08 down to about 1.010 - 1.012 so hopefully the combination of the lower mash temp + the 90 minute mash + the 2# of simple sugars will give me the dry finish that I'm looking for.

I also adjusted the recipe to end up with roughly the same theoretical IBU's as last year's recipe (spare me the "100 IBU's are the limit that anyone can taste" arguement please). This may seem odd since last year's only used 13 oz. and this year's will use 21 oz., but based on Hopacles '07 I wanted to get a MUCH stronger nose in this beer, along with much more hop flavor to go along with the smack-you-in-the-face bitterness.

Due to the large volume of hops involved, I adjusted this recipe to result in 6.5 gallons into primary. Hopacles '07 was brewed based on 5.5 galons and only resulted in about 4.5-4.75 gallons in the keg due to absorption by hop pellets. I want to make damn sure that I have 5 gallons to bottle/keg this year. The grainbill and hopbill were adjusted acordingly based on the increased volume.

In case you're wondering - yes, I have all of these hops in stock , with about 5 lb. to spare. Finding deals on hops and buying them up has become a bit of a compulsion for me lately.

Recipe Specifications
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Batch Size: 6.50 gal
Boil Size: 8.54 gal
Estimated OG: 1.102 SG
Estimated Color: 12.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 299.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
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Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 47.83 %
5.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 21.74 %
2.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 8.70 %
1.00 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
1.00 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 52.1 IBU
3.00 oz Warrior [16.40 %] (60 min) Hops 91.5 IBU
3.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 72.6 IBU
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) (Mash HopHops 6.3 IBU
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort HoHops 30.7 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 20.5 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (10 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (5 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)Hops -
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
2.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
2.00 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8.70 %
2 Pkgs Nottingham Yeast (Lallemand #-) Yeast-Ale

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 21.00 lb
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Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 6.51 gal of water at 165.3 F 150.0 F

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Arneba28

Recipes 

Thats more hops then I have used in my last 8 batches combined. Jesus man, Going to use this as an insect repellent? lady repellent or are you just making beer that no one but us people whos tongues are dead to most hop flavor will enjoy. Will this be drinkable after what, about 5 months?

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Chello

Recipes 

I may be wrong, but i thought i heard somewhere there is a max to the IBU's that someone can actually taste. So anything over that threshold would be a waste.

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s3n8

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I think you should cut your 60 minute addition back by a quarter ounce or so, then it would be perfect

Seriously, I would love to try one.

Big10Seaner

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I vote for insane. I would be up to the challenge of trying it though By the way, where are you getting simcoe hops? They seem very high priced whenever I have checked.

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PseudoChef

Recipes 

I honestly think you have way too many bittering hops. If you're looking for the hop-nose, then you need to bombard this sucker from 10 minutes on and dry hop with around 8 oz over the course of a couple days. I would think about taking around 4-5 oz of the 60 minute additions and moving them toward the end or saving them to dryhop. I'd also forgo the mash-hop - I've never really tasted anything different about it.

I'd also be tempted to cut back on the specialty malts a ton. 2 lbs crystal? That's not going to help your endeavor to dry it out.

I know you're trying to create your own thing, but think about the Pliny recipes - the Elder is just 2-row and a pinch of crystal. The Younger is all two row, no specialty malts at all. You want to take into consideration of the unfermentable nature of these malts. I think the Munich is a great choice if you're looking for that malty foundation - it will ferment out, but still leave a fantastic base. I think the Meladoinin and Aromatic are also going to be the exact opposite of what you want in terms of hop nose - the more malt up front, the more it's going to cover up the hops.

Yooper

Recipes 

Well, Kyle, you can imagine what I think about this!

I say, "Good plan!". You know that I was probably the most critical of your hopacles- it was good, but I really thought it was a barley wine. Once I read the recipe,, though, I realized that it was an IIPA. (I also think DFH 120 is too much like a BW, too). As far as I'm concerned, more hops in the nose would have really made that beer the best!

I'm not too sure about the aromatic malt- I assume you're going for a malty aroma and taste, to balance the hops? I've been experimenting with aromatic malt myself right now, usually in 4 ounce increments to bring that certain malty something to my pale ales. What do you expect from the aromatic malt?

I love simcoe, amarillo, and cascade together. I think that's a brilliant combo. I'm unsure of all the hops additions at 60 minutes, though. You have columbus, warrior, simcoe, and cascade, with more warrior for FWH and amarillo for MH. I would probably keep the FWH with the warrior, but not add them again at 60 minutes. Why all the different hops at 60? Do you expect a fuller bitterness from the variety? (Just asking here- I'm not experienced enough with all those different bittering hops to be critical- I really want to know).

Edit- while I was typing and thinking pseudochef posted his response. I'm asking what he's asking, only in a more babbling way, I guess.

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ohiobrewtus

Recipes 

Chef, that's exactly the kind of feedback that I was looking for. This is a hop bomb, but it still needs to at least attempt some balance. The specialty malts certainly contributed to the barleywine traits that Yoop pointed to. I disagree on the mash hop though. I've mash hopped my last few IPA's and the flavor contribution is certainly noticable.

As for the 60 min additions, I was using high aa% hops that I have in inventory to achieve a similar theorectical IBU as last year's version. If I had enough Warrior, that's all I would use. I'll tweak this when I have time and repost.

The cascade at 60 min is an error on my part. There will be no 60 min cascade addition - only dryhop.


Thank you for the great suggestions.

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Chriso

Recipes 

The only concern I have is 3 oz of Warrior for bittering. I've always thought Warrior came across a little too harsh when used in large quantities.

I really liked Left Hand's Warrior IPA. I really like Simcoe-Amarillo-heavy IPAs. But I don't know if the two mix well.

Either way, I really like this recipe, I think it looks very promising. If/when you brew it, keep in touch, I'd love to swap a bottle with yer.

Edit: Staring at it more and more... I'd cut the Munich by 1 or 2 lbs, and add it back in plain ol' Pale Malt. Same thing P-Chef was sayin' about Pliny. Also I'd do *either* the Melanoidin or the Aromatic, not both. In general, the 08 appears to have far more specialty grain than the 07. I'd thin it up a bit.

Edit 2: I know what you mean re: finding + snatching up hops. It's become a compulsion for me, too. Now I have an European and an American shelf in the freezer. Seperate box for each continent, both boxes full with at least 3lbs each. :P

Edit One More: I'd even consider extending the mash to 120 mins. This should encourage GREAT fermentability.

Edit Yet Again: BeerSmith recipes bleed together when I try to read them, so I'm gonna repost the hop schedule with some breaks in it, for clarity. That will help me think out the rest of this. And I took out the 60" Cascade like you said.

MASH
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop)
FIRST WORT
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort Hop)
60 MINUTE
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (60 min)
3.00 oz Warrior [16.40 %] (60 min)
3.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (60 min)
15 MINUTE
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
10 MINUTE
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (10 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
5 MINUTE
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (5 min) Hops 7.4 IBU
DRY HOP
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)
2.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)

-Are your Warriors really two different AA's? That could help your computed IBUs a little, I'm guessing they're all 16.4, not 15.
-Move some of the Simcoe back into the 15 - 0 range? I'd love to see a little more flavor/aroma hopping, Or is that why you're relying on the Dry Hop additions to provide?
-I'd love to see 1/2 Simcoe, 1/2 Amarillo for the Mash Hop addition. It seems like those two get along so, so well!

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PseudoChef

Recipes 

Sounds good, I just noticed the Cascade too. Glad you cleared that up. What do you get from the Mash Hop? I did it once in an India Brown, but don't know enough to really know what it puts on the table, so to speak. Thanks for your insight.