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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Hop Flowers
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:08 PM   #1
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Default Hop Flowers

I asked a question last time and it was the only one not answered. The articles that were suggested didn't answer this from browsing and the software that was suggested is not for my operating system. The one that was for it generated errors, but it impressed the hell out of me because I don't know shell because I forgot all the commands. But the question was if you have hop flowers what is the percentage to hop pellets or plugs.

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Old 07-11-2007, 08:21 PM   #2
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I am sure to get flamed for this, but I would suggest using the same amount of whole hops as pellet. I am fully aware that there is a difference in hop utilization, but there are SOOOOOOOOO MANY variables that effect your hop utilization, that I would venture to guess that unless you are brewing under professional conditions, even the best of software should still be taken as a very educated guess. Your wort gravity, agitation from boiling/stirring, cool down time, Freshness of the hops, Volume of the boil........ The list just keeps going. I personally use whole at a 1:1 ratio.




Also, if you were having problems with Qbrew, wINE should work just fine for a trial of Promash.

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Old 07-11-2007, 08:22 PM   #3
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What do you mean your question was the "only one not answered"? This is a forum, not an "ask the experts" panel. People just pitch in whatever they know or whatever they feel like contributing.

Anyway, to answer your question about an ounce of flowers versus an ounce of pellets... well... What weighs more? A pound of pennies or a pound of feathers?


With that said though, pellets do tend to have crushed cells which can lead to a slight vegetal flavor if used in large amounts. On the other hand, they tend to release their flavors more quickly, allowing for faster dry hops, for example, and probably more effective late additions.

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Old 07-11-2007, 08:29 PM   #4
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Personally I use the same amount of hops (by WEIGHT of course) whether using whole or pellet hops. I sort of assume that the AA rating printed on the hops bag already takes any utilization differences into account, though it may not. But I also don't think it makes that big a difference, so I don't worry about it - but I'm certainly no expert.

With that said, I did a quick google search (which is a good thing to try with questions such as this one) and found a reference which states:

Quote:
Another thing to keep in mind about pellet hops is that the fact of their processing means they often give more of their bitterness to the beer, and do so in a shorter period of time in the boil. Many homebrewers feel they get full hop utilisation from pellet hops in only 45 minutes vs 60 minutes for plugs or whole. The exact amount of extra bitterness you get from pellets does not seem to be well documented, but figuring with about 15% is probably safe.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:30 PM   #5
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I always thought that the general concensus was that pellets were 10-15% more concentrated when formulating recipes.

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Old 07-11-2007, 08:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blender
I always thought that the general concensus was that pellets were 10-15% more concentrated when formulating recipes.

I'd guess that's a rule of thumb. It's probably more like 0% more concentrated with 60 minutes left in the boil and 30% more concentrated with 10 minutes left in the boil.

Just think about it- crushed cells vs whole leaves. Which one is going to give up the flavors faster? The one with about a thousand times more surface area- the pellets. But if the boil is long enough, eventually the whole leaf will catch up. In fact, because it wasn't processed and squeezed, the leaf might even be a little MORE effective over a long boil...

So for a long boil, I can't see how it would matter... but for a short boil, yeah, there's other factors.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn Squirrels
I'd guess that's a rule of thumb. It's probably more like 0% more concentrated with 60 minutes left in the boil and 30% more concentrated with 10 minutes left in the boil.

Just think about it- crushed cells vs whole leaves. Which one is going to give up the flavors faster? The one with about a thousand times more surface area- the pellets. But if the boil is long enough, eventually the whole leaf will catch up. In fact, because it wasn't processed and squeezed, the leaf might even be a little MORE effective over a long boil...

So for a long boil, I can't see how it would matter... but for a short boil, yeah, there's other factors.
Maybe true, but pellets store better and there is a good possibility of less oxidation in the storing process. I think they are more reliable.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:54 PM   #8
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I would tend to focus my attention and base my comparisons on the assumption that the ingredients are of reasonable quality. When you bring up the topic of oxidation or over-aged hops and whatnot-- you are trying to account for factors you have little or no control over and will only rarely be present.

Besides, how long do you store your hops anyway? And don't you keep them cold? You are focusing on decreasing the likelihood of a bad batch of hops. Personally, I'd rather assume the hops will be good and, if I ever do get a bad batch, I will simply change suppliers. Afterall, let's be realistic here, when we're talking about a "bad batch" we're talking about very minor differences in hop quality. It's not like it will totally ruin a batch. You'll just miss out on 3 or 4 IBU's. That's all. And that's assuming you got bad hops to begin with- pretty unlikely in this modern era of refrigerators and ice packs and oxygen-safe packaging.

So seems to me like the better approach is to focus on the known science of AA extraction and surface area, rather than worrying about something that may never occur to you personally. I think that approach is much more the "play it safe" approach.

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Old 07-11-2007, 09:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damn Squirrels
What do you mean your question was the "only one not answered"? This is a forum, not an "ask the experts" panel. People just pitch in whatever they know or whatever they feel like contributing.
I just said this because all of the suggestions failed and i've asked enough to know that a new post is payed attention to then one thats old...Plus that, I didn't know the answer.
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Old 07-11-2007, 09:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evandude
Personally I use the same amount of hops (by WEIGHT of course) whether using whole or pellet hops. I sort of assume that the AA rating printed on the hops bag already takes any utilization differences into account, though it may not. But I also don't think it makes that big a difference, so I don't worry about it - but I'm certainly no expert.

With that said, I did a quick google search (which is a good thing to try with questions such as this one) and found a reference which states:
AA? ive never seen that before...
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