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Old 02-21-2013, 07:52 PM   #11
FATC1TY
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It seems you really want some honey to come through. Perhaps you'd be best with another style? An IPA is about the hops, not the adjuncts you add to it. Why not a honey wheat hefe or Blonde.

I'd drop the oats, those arent doing anything the wheat wouldn't do, and you won't taste them in there.

Keep it simple, I know you said you are new at recipe formulation, so just start easy. Adding tons of stuff to a beer doesn't make it taste any better, or always more complex. The best beers, ironically are the simple ones, and trust me, I've found that out.

Do the 2 row, the wheat and the honey malt. If you want to toss in the Munich, have at it. Ditch the oats, and put that back to your 2 row.

You hop schedule is okay, the Citra at 60 will do nothing but bitter, so I'd suggest dropping it off, and using the half ounce at flame out, and do a hop stand and add it when you've cooled to 180* and then stop for 20 minutes.

If you need the IBU's ( and I'm sure you will with that much honey malt ), then up the CTZ addition, and keep all else the same, but add the Flame out/ Hop stand .5 ounce.

Also- Depending on your mash schedule, and gravity, adding the honey could help or harm. If you add it after fermentation, it will kick start it again. If you beer ends up dry, it'll dry it out even more, and you could end up with a thin beer despite the wheat, and something probably a bit boozy, and hot.

If you mash high, and leave some body to it, you'll risk having an issue with the honey malt and the beer being too heavy and sweet. Adding the honey could help to thin the body a bit, but again, will leave some residual honey aroma to the beer, that personally I doubt you will pick up that great since you are using Citra. Worth a shot if you want to give it a go!

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Old 02-22-2013, 02:15 AM   #12
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Hmm, all really good points. I am looking for that honey taste. Call it what you want, but I want a slight bitterness to it, maybe more of a pale than an IPA.

I wanted the Munich to give it some more character and malty notes.
I am going to drop the oats, you are right.

Do you think the Citra hop would be a funny pairing with the honey malt? Do you think CTZ would be a better choice throughout?

I intend on doing a higher mash (156 or so) to add more body. The honey addition will be a game time one.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

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Old 02-22-2013, 03:58 AM   #13
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I think the hops will probably over power most of the honey flavor but it's probably still going to taste good. Your beer doesn't have to fit a style. If you know the flavor profile you want then that's all you need.

I think one thing that helps me with recipe design is to look at each ingredient and be able to say exactly why it is there and in that amount.

One suggestion would be to dry hop with 1oz citra and 1oz cascade. Blends of hops that are of similar families are interesting and cascade is a classic. Plus dry hopping is awesome.

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Old 02-22-2013, 04:10 AM   #14
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Thinking about it a little more... you could go a different direction completely and make a nice cream ale which would be much less hoppy with this grain bill which might highlight the honey malt well. Just change the hop schedule to something with a lot less ibus and a single small flavor addition at 10 min.

Or another thing to think about is that for an ipa with this grai bill more floral hops might go better with this than the awesome citrusy American hops you proposed. Maybe goldings or some thing like mt. Hood. Other people probably have a better idea of what would play nice

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Old 02-22-2013, 11:19 AM   #15
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Interesting points. I want to keep it as a Pale Ale/IPA type ish. You make a good point about overpowering the honey. I was originally thinking floral hops, but noticed citra was used a lot with honey.
In order to combat the overpowering, what do you think about raising the honey to 1#? As well as changing the hop schedule a bit...like this:

Grain:
6.5# 2-row (base)
2# Wheat (mouth feel)
1# Honey (sweet matly taste)
1#Munich (malty notes)

Hops:
.75 oz CMZ (60min)
.5 oz goldings/mt hood/something floral (15min)
.5 oz goldings/mt hood/something floral (5min)
1-2 oz goldings/mt hood/something floral (dry hop)

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Old 02-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #16
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If you want malty with some good layers of flavor, use Maris Otter instead of 2 row, drop the munich all together. Simple is best, trust me..

If you are wanting some obviously sweet and malty, then look for some styles that will flow with that, and call it an IPA if you want.

I would not raise the honey malt, at all from .75.. Thats already a fair, fair bit in there. You seem to really want to keep adding so, go ahead and experiment with it, and don't ask for any more opinions. Just because this isn't a recipe most people would use, doesn't mean it might not be good, so dive on it, and have fun with it.

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Old 02-22-2013, 01:30 PM   #17
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Hhha will do. Thanks for all the advice.

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Old 02-22-2013, 02:19 PM   #18
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Yeah you can't raise the honey malt too much because it's going to make the final product too sweet. You could add 1-2 lb of honey which will dry it out and counter balance the sweetness.

Maybe you should try to prioritize your motivation for this beer. Hop flavor, honey flavor, malty, color, bitterness, abv, mouthfeel, head retention, sweetness. Obviously you want all of these but what are most important. Its easy to build in one or two attributes into a beer but optimization of all those is difficult so it's good to know what can be compromised.

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