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Old 08-13-2008, 01:31 AM   #11
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I've made a Wit Beer based on Jamil's recipe thats tastes damn close me thinks. I changed a few things thoug. Instead of using orange zest I used about a 3/4 jar of marmalade ( something like 6 oz I think) and used Wyeast Forbidden Fruit (3463) yeast. Fermented it high at 78- 80 and after it mellowed out a bit, tastes great. That yeast though, is a stinker and does produce some funky flavors at first. It is supposed to be the Hoegarden yeast.

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Old 08-13-2008, 01:33 AM   #12
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deathbrewer thank you do your research and give the golds to us

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Old 08-13-2008, 01:42 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathBrewer View Post
no, unmalted wheat. raw, unmalted wheat.

you'll have to add it to beersmith but first you have to find it...

torrified wheat is as close as i can get at my LHBS, but it has made an incredible difference in my wheat beers. gives it a brilliant wheat flavor.
Go to any health food store and they should have several different types of raw bulk wheat
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Old 08-13-2008, 03:20 AM   #14
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the key is in the unmalted wheat, i think.
Is a separate mash required for unmalted wheat? I heard on the Jamil show that a separate mash (coupled with boiling the cereals) with a decoction is required. Is that right?
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:29 AM   #15
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a hoegaarden story:

It was around this time last year, (ok, april...) that a friend and I got to spend a few days in London, before we were to fly out to France. Anyways, having been acquainted with cask-ale the year before in the states (our local Middle Ages Brewing co puts out a nice selection) I set out to find a pub that had a good selection of real ale. After lots of walking about and many side trips into random pubs to try the local brew, my friend and I finally found a pub that had cask-ale and a large selection of draught beer that I had never heard of. So after a few pints of the warm "real-ale" I decided to take a break and try a beer that I had never had. I ordered a Hoegaarden.

Having tried Hoegaarden, I was hooked. For the next few days I drank the stuff at every possible opportunity and while in France continued to do the same. (Though, i have since realized that there are far superior witbiers out there)

A few days later I was at a bar in Nantes France, when I met a guy from Texas while talking about Hoegaarden, and came to find out he was a homebrewer and had worked abroad in the brewing industry. At that time my homebrewing experience was limited to a Mr. Beer 'Canadian pils' kit - that I royally f-ed up. Anyhow, we got talking about homebrewing and he told me how I could brew something similar to Hoegaarden. So interested in doing so, I had him write me down a list of ingredients and things I needed, ect. One of the ingredients: Unmalted wheat berries.

Months later and back in the States, I tried to brew the recipe he had given me. It contained pale malt, flaked wheat, raw wheat berries, Saaz / East K. Golding hops, and Coriander / Bitter Orange peel. Though, he didn’t give me the specifics amounts of each. Undeterred, I got the ingredients together and after reading a few books on brewing and lots of help from my LHBS, brewed my first ‘real’ beer.

The result was very similar to Hoegaarden in everything but the aftertaste. The color was nearly spot on; it had a wonderful head and good flavor. The only downside, the aftertaste was god-awful. Like eating yeast sludge.

So yes, I imagine unmalted wheat should be included in the recipe – and I think my next brew might just have to be a Hoegaarden clone.

Thanks

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Old 08-13-2008, 09:11 AM   #16
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wow it seems i have inspired a lot of people to clone this wonderful beer!

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Old 08-13-2008, 09:13 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niquejim View Post
Go to any health food store and they should have several different types of raw bulk wheat
i think i can find something around here...thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by noisy123 View Post
Is a separate mash required for unmalted wheat? I heard on the Jamil show that a separate mash (coupled with boiling the cereals) with a decoction is required. Is that right?
i think it would benefit from a decoction. never heard about the separate mash. i'll look into it more...

in regards to ingredients, so far i'm leaning towards:

70% wheat: half unmalted, half white wheat
30% pilsner

For 5 Gal:
0.5 oz coriander
o.25 oz bitter orange peal

i'm also thinking about small amounts of sweet orange peel, camomile, and other spices (in VERY small amounts)

hops will include the possibility of tettnanger, saaz, hallertau and/or styrian goldings.
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Old 08-13-2008, 09:14 AM   #18
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hmm even if thats not a hoegarden clone sounds pretty good to me

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Old 08-13-2008, 06:06 PM   #19
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here's a good article: http://www.realbeer.com/spencer/Belgian/white-brewing.html

most important part to me, looks like i'm doing a protein rest:

Quote:
Museums use wheat starch as a glue, and once you mash in you'll see why. Start with a loose mash using two quarts of water per pound, and plan on using an extended protein rest (45 mins-1 hour) at anything between 117 and 126 degrees farenheit. This is how the Belgians do it, and you'll be amazed at how the proteolytic enzymes work a mess of wallpaper paste into a light, workable mash. Never has the miracle of mashing been better demonstrated.

The white beer protein rest offers a tradeoff. If you run the rest longer (1 hour) you'll get an easily spargeable mash, but the final beer may be clearer and less colorful than you want beer; rests of 45 minutes or less give wonderful color, but can be sticky to lauter. Personally I use 45 minutes and watch the lauter tun carefully. If you're willing to sacrifice some authenticity, you can substitute several pounds of malted wheat for a portion of the unmalted variety.
looks like i'll be doing a short protein rest. some rice hulls probably won't hurt either. i'll still use a portion of malted white wheat, but perhaps a smaller percentage. we'll add oat flakes as well.

it doesn't seem like mashing the unmalted wheat by itself would have any benefit, as it doesn't have any enzymes. i'm not sure about boiling it.

i'm going to go with all styrian goldings for this brew. i think i can still get the belgian wit II (WLP410) but supposedly the WLP400 is the hoegaarden strain. we'll see how that works out. i recently made a black/wit with WLP410 and torrified wheat and it was amazing.

i think i'll use the yeast cake for this batch to make the black/wit again, but with a higher gravity to make it more of a dark strong ale, maybe 9%...similar to Trois Pistoles.
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Old 08-13-2008, 06:08 PM   #20
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ya know, i wonder if they use something to lighten the body...i have half a mind to add a pound of flaked maize to this batch...

EDIT: looks like they may use a smaller percentage of wheat to get the lighter body. maybe i'll only go with 50% wheat and 50% pilsner...

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