Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Hitachino Nest Red rice ale and Koji?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-08-2009, 08:52 PM   #1
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default Hitachino Nest Red rice ale and Koji?

If you have not tried this beer, plunk down the five plus dollars a bottle and try it. I won't say its as amazing as the white ale from Hitachino nest but it is a vary interesting beer, with a host of unique flavors you might not expect out of such a simple recipe.


If you go to the Hitachino web site, the ingredients are listed, and the malts are Pilsner and Flaked Barley, but no rice let alone red rice?

So this got me thinking of an unfiltered sake I drank a couple months ago that had a pink hue to it, much like the red rice beer does. so I'm thinking that this beer might utilize the Koji fungus used to create the rice malt for sake fermentation, but to "mash" or convert the starches in the flaked barley to fermentables.

So i think i might try this idea out, of using Koji spore's (in a separate brew area) on 1/2-1lb of steamed flaked barley and let it grow for a few days at 90ºF , then add it to a pilsner only mash at my mash out and sparging step before the boil.

I don't think I'll get the pink color, because id bet that is a specific characteristic of the Koji strain used, but i might get some interesting flavor profiles out of this, or it'll taste like moldy bread...

__________________

Last edited by Bsquared; 07-08-2009 at 08:54 PM.
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-08-2009, 09:35 PM   #2
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default

After consulting a few papers about Koji Clasification, and talking to my lab mate from china, she told me about Red yeast rice, Monascus purpureus, a strain of yeast used in fermentation that adds a pink color to the fermentation product. Now if i can get some to try it.

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-09-2009, 01:41 AM   #3
fastricky
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
fastricky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 834
Liked 7 Times on 6 Posts

Default

I'd like to hear more about this... sounds like something very cool and I'll need to find a bottle as well to try.

__________________
fastricky is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-09-2009, 03:58 AM   #4
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default

Hunt it down, ether the white ale or the red rice, they are some thing else.

As for the hunt for Monascus purprueus, I emailed White Labs to see if they had or had access to that strain and they did not but directed me to ATCC.ORG. (American type culture collection) where I found it for $250, but would need an MTA (Material transfer agreement) certifying I would be using it for research purposes only, so I think I'll try another rout for now.

I think I have three shots to try to get this Yeast,M.Purpureus is used as a herbal medicine it china called Red yeast rice, where it is fermented on rice and dried, so I went to our local specialty market and got a Supplement of red yeast rice (not the extract)

On the bottle the active ingredient was M.Purpureus 60mg, so thats a good sign so I'm going to give it a shot.

I made 500ml of DME in my flask sterilized, and I'll try to inoculate it with 120mg, and see if the dried yeast will come back. I doubt it will work, but I'll give it a try.

If this does not work, I'll get a bottle of Red rice ale and see if I can culture any of the yeast off the bottom of the bottle. They are not filtered and there is a lot of sediment in these bottles, so there might be some yeast still alive in to bottle if it's not pasteurized.

Worst case serious I'll go hunting around to some local labs, and see what I can get.

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-10-2009, 12:27 AM   #5
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default Looks like we might be getting some where

I just got home from work, and checked the flask, and it looks good. There is a light krausen forming and I can see lots of little bubbles suggesting the yeast are still active, and there is hint of CO2 smell in the flask, so I'm betting they are ALIVE!!!

Now the plan, is to devise a twelve gallon batch, and split in to two 6 gallon carboys, and ferment one with a blend, and the other straight with the red yeast. good thing I got a 6000ml flask today, I'm going to need to build a big starter!

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-10-2009, 12:53 AM   #6
thantos
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
thantos's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 171
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Keep us posted this sounds really interesting!

__________________

"I love the Devil, Cause the Devil is Rock n Roll ! ! !"

thantos is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-10-2009, 04:25 AM   #7
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default The recipie...Critique me please

Recipe: Red Rice ale
Style: 23-Speciality Beer

Recipe Overview

Wort Volume Before Boil: 14.00 US gals
Wort Volume After Boil: 12.50 US gals
Volume Transferred: 12.00 US gals
Water Added: 0.00 US gals
Volume At Pitching: 12.00 US gals
Final Batch Volume: 11.00 US gals
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.063 SG
Expected OG: 1.071 SG
Expected FG: 1.017 SG
Expected ABV: 7.3 %
Expected ABW: 5.7 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 12.0
Expected Color: 7.7 EBC
Apparent Attenuation: 75.5 %
Mash Efficiency: 77.0 %
Boil Duration: 90.0 mins
Fermentation Temperature: 70 degF

Fermentables
German Pilsner Malt 28lb 0oz (90.3 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Flaked Barley 3lb 0oz (9.7 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
German Hallertauer Hersbrucker (3.5 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 60 Min From End
German Hallertauer Hersbrucker (3.5 % alpha) 2.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 30 Min From End

Other Ingredients

Yeast: White Labs WLP570-Belgian Golden Ale 50% / red yeast rice 50%

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name: HERMS156.
Recipe Notes

So this is the recipe I worked up from Beer alchemy according to the Hitachino web site. Any Comments? Ideas?

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-11-2009, 10:56 PM   #8
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default

A quick up date, I stepped up my starter last night to try to get near an optimal pitching rate with the yeast I have. It looks good they went through 5L of 1.045SG starter over night. I spiked the starter with 2.5g of yeast extract too, so they can get healthy before I pitch them.

Good things, there I a similar pink hue that you see in the red rice ale, as well as a similar smell and taste, though tasting the starter tends to be a little nasty, with all the live yeast.

I'm assuming that It is going to take a few batches pf re-pitching the yeast before I select for the best preforming yeast for fermenting wort, but I'm hoping that the blended batch will be a good approximation to what I'm looking for.

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2009, 04:39 AM   #9
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default Brew day!

Today I brewed a 9 gallon batch, after I realized my old mash/tun was not going to handle 30lb of grains for a 12gallon batch, brew sculpture 3.0 is sill in the works, so i had to scale back .

Last night I bought a Hitachino nest red rice ale, so i could do a little comparison. The aroma had a faint resemblance to the yeast starter, and the pink color of the beer was a lot lighter than I remember. All and all, I think I might be Way off my rocker on this one, but any way On ward and up ward!

I decided to do a little experiment, so I split the wort, into two 5gallon carboys and pitched one with all WL_Cal ale and the other 50/50 cal ale and red rice yeast. I guess I'll see how this one goes, I'm hoping the flavor is not way off, because the pink hue of the starter was really unique, and might be cool in a beer.

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-14-2009, 02:01 AM   #10
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,809
Liked 55 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default Nasty yeast action!

So this morning i checked on the carboys, and the Red rice yeast batch was in full action! though the Cal ale was just getting started.

When I got home from work they were both going gang buster's! but the color of the two where vary different. The smell of both was much better than the starter, so I'm a little more confident the Red Yeast will not over power the brew.
p7130014.jpg

If you look carefully at the bottom of the Hydrometer cylinder you can see the pink color the yeast make.
p7110002.jpg

Here is what the Hitachino red rice looks like
p7120011.jpg
But if this did not work, I was able to capture some of the yeast from the bottle, and I'm going to build a starter from this for another batch
p7130015.jpg

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hitachino Nest White Yeast? khbrew Extract Brewing 31 12-04-2012 04:40 PM
Hitachino Nest White ale recipe? cbrider13 Recipes/Ingredients 16 10-20-2009 08:08 AM
Sake (Kome-Koji) question digdan Wine Making Forum 1 06-14-2009 05:56 PM
Hitachino Next XH cafeviking Recipes/Ingredients 1 10-15-2008 01:07 AM
Hitachino Nest JCA: This stuff is insanely good! ThickHead Commercial Brew Discussion 0 10-11-2008 04:35 PM