Help me make a "violently hoppy" IIIPA
 

So my friend is obsessed with Hoppy Beers. Says nothing on the market can get it done with him so he's commissioning a batch of homebrew to get the job done. He said initially that he wants to make the "bitter beer face" from those old Keystone Light commercials. And recently he's been saying "hoppiest ever", "violently hoppy" etc. I initially thought about just putting in 10oz of Warrior hops at 60 minutes and laughing while he tries to drink 5 gallons of that beer, but then I decided it's a nice challenge to make a beer like that taste drinkable, while still so agressively hoppy. Here's my recipe so far, primarily I'm concerned about the hops choice, quantities, and whether or not 4lbs of vienna is way too much for a beer like this (hoping to balance the IBU's with some malt, but is that too much?)

Looking for any and all feedback, from yeast, to grain bill, to hops etc. Don't be shy!

OG: 1.099
FG: 1.015
ABV: 11.08%
IBU (tinseth): 234.61
SRM (morey): 22.59
Mash @152 for 60 minutes
White Labs - Super High Gravity Ale Yeast WLP099


10lb 2-row
4lb Maris Otter
4lb Vienna
2lb Crystal 120L

3oz Chinook @60min.
2oz Simcoe @ 60min.
3oz Warrior @15min.
2oz Amarillo @10min.
2oz Citra Dry hop for 7 days.

5 gallon batch I presume. I'd reduce the 60 min addition to 1 to 2 oz Warrior then load all the other hops from 30 to 0 min, perhaps an oz every 8 mins or so. Hmm...

I dunno, he's specifically talking about bitterness and not just aroma/flavor. Interesting thought though....

Hmmm is right. This is a doozy for me. Also, yes 5.5 gallon batch (so there's some extra to be lost in the trub for my 5-gallon keg).

I'd definitely take out the 2 pounds of crystal 120l- or at least reduce it by at least 3/4. It has a burnt raisiny taste that will not complement an IIPA.

I'd consider reducing some of the grain and using corn sugar, so the finish is crisp and dry and not cloying and thick.

Like this:

12lb 2-row
4lb Vienna
1 pound corn sugar (or two pounds to hit your OG)
.5 pound carapils
.25 pound crystal 120L (if using) or .5 pound crystal 40L

And then for hopping, I'd go with a schedule with lots and lots of late hops that go together- like in Pliny the Elder's combo. I wouldn't use warrior at 15 minutes- it's a great bittering hop but doesn't give much hops flavor or aroma. He may say he wants bitterness, but if someone likes IPAs, it's about the hops and not just bitterness. A firmly bitter IPA without hops flavor and aroma would be weird, and not tasty.

Maybe something like this:
1-2 oz warrior @60min. (or 50 IBUs with this addition)
1 oz simcoe 15 minutes
1 oz citra 10 minutes
1 oz amarillo 10 minutes
1 oz citra 5 minutes
1 oz simcoe 1 minute
1 oz amarillo 1 minute
Dryhop with 1 ounce each of citra, amarillo, and simcoe

Yooper's revision looks really good. Might up the dry hop a little to get a ton of aroma out of it.

Yoops, I always love when you jump in on my threads, great advice! I love the thought about the crystal 120L, didn't really know that so that's great advice, and the sugar for drying will be fantastic.

I'm worried that if I go specifically heavy on the late addition hops then he'll be disappointed with the lack of bitterness, even if he's thrilled with the aroma. He definitely said he wanted the bitter beer face, and wanted the bitterness "outside the scope of what the average beer drinker would find enjoyable."

You can certainly increase the bittering hops. Keep in mind that it's impossible to get more than about 100 IBUs in a wort anyway, even though it calculates much higher, because the wort will reach a saturation point with the hops oils and they will no longer isomerize. Even Pliny the Elder, which calculates out to something like 250 IBUs actually tests out at 80-90 IBUs.

Using words like "violently hoppy" is different than "violently bitter", so I'd clarify with him if he wants "hoppy" or "bitter". They are not the same thing at all!

Or...

10lb 2-row
4lb Maris Otter
4lb Belgian White Wheat
1lb Crystal 60L
1lb Carapils

1oz Warrior @60min.
2oz Simcoe @ 60min.
3oz Apollo @ 60 min.
1oz Warrior @55min.
1oz Warrior @50min.
1oz Cascade @45min.
1oz Cascade @40min.
1oz Cascade @35min.
1oz Simcoe @ 0min.
1oz Citra@ 0min.

2oz Citra Dry hop
2oz Chinook Dry Hop
for 7 to 10 days on the hops.

Or...

10lb 2-row
4lb Maris Otter
4lb Belgian White Wheat - head retention
1lb Crystal 60L - color
1lb Carapils mouth feel

1oz Warrior @60min. Whole hops
2oz Simcoe @ 60min. Whole hops
3oz Apollo @ 60 min. Whole hops

Whole hops in 3 muslin bags at the start of the boil

1oz Warrior @55min. - pellet
1oz Warrior @50min. - pellet
1oz Cascade @45min. - pellet
1oz Cascade @40min. - pellet
1oz Cascade @35min. - pellet

these late additions support the bitterness and will acentuate the aroma of the dry hop

1oz Simcoe @ 0min. - pellet
1oz Citra@ 0min. - pellet

2oz Citra Dry hop - pellet
2oz Chinook Dry Hop - pellet

for 7 to 10 days on the hops.

Exactly. Exactly...