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Old 10-17-2012, 09:52 PM   #1
Mk010101
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Default Help me make a Smoked Rye Porter

Every now and then I try to get a bit creative. And it's usually dangerous! I am going to post a recipe here and some thoughts on what I am trying to make. Maybe someone has made something similar and can share (I did a search and failed to find anything.)

I like having a nice porter during the fall months. I did a smoked porter last year based on Biermuncher's recipe. I really liked it a lot and want to do a bit of a twist on it, asking myself what would rye malt do for this beer? So I came up with this recipe and want some input. Maybe there is just too much going on with this beer that it won't work?

My goal is to have a balanced robust porter base, the characteristic rye spicyness with the smokiness in the background. Thinking of also putting in rye whiskey soaked oak cubes in secondary, to give it even more character!

The hops schedule is simple. Was thinking of putting in Northern Brewer hops to bitter in place of the Willamette. Either one should work, I would think. However, maybe there is another hop I am overlooking that would complement the above goal better?

Lastly, the yeast. It's obvious to use a British Ale yeast. But what would a Belgian yeast do? WLP 550 is what I am thinking, but keeping the temps under more control than usual with that yeast. Thoughts on that?

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.15 gal
Boil Size: 6.53 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 40.00 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 16.00 %
2.00 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 16.00 %
2.00 lb Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 16.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 8.00 %
0.50 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 18.1 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 13.9 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.6 IBU

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG <----could be a few points lower with WLP 550
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.05 %
Bitterness: 37.4 IBU
Est Color: 29.9 SRM

Mash Profile

75 min Mash at 152.0 F

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Output 2012: 56 gallons
Goal 2012: 120 gallons

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Old 10-17-2012, 10:04 PM   #2
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I don't have any personal experience with smoked malts but that amount seems a bit high, I think if I remember right from reading that 10% of the grist lends to a pronounced smoke flavor. A peat smoked malt will lend to an even harsher bitterness with scotch like tones. Also keep in mind that the bitterness of hops and smoked malt tend to compound on each other. Not trying to knock your idea as I have my own for a smoked amber ale and I love the idea of using smoked malts. If you brew it let us know what you went with and how it turns out.

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Old 10-17-2012, 10:06 PM   #3
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Look at Biermuncher's Loon Lake Smoked Porter. Uses 5lbs. smoked malt and it came out really nice. Sure it was smokey, in flavor and in smell. A bit much for anyone who doesn't like that, but in this one I am only using 2lbs. Doesn't seem too much based on experience, but I will take it into consideration. Thanks!

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Old 10-18-2012, 06:34 AM   #4
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I made this as a 2.25 gallon batch. It was very good.

3 cold-smoked rye, I used pecan wood
3.5 2-row
1.1 dark brown malt (175L, toasted in oven at 400 for 50 min)
.25 oats
1oz Willamette 60 min
WY1318 London ale III
66/10/7%

In a smoked rye porter, I think you could use almost any ale yeast and not notice much difference. I used the Willamette because I didn't like it as a flavor hop and wanted to go through my half-pound, so you could use whatever. I have no way to say how my smoked malt compares to the various commercial varieties, but I would guess that Briess' Cherrywood malt is the closest thing. Smoked malt varies considerably from company and with freshness; and what tastes lightly smoky to me might taste like an ashtray to someone else. But if you like smoke, I'd use a lot of smoked malt and just let it fade if it ends up being too much for you.

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Old 10-18-2012, 04:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwood-kid View Post
I made this as a 2.25 gallon batch. It was very good.

3 cold-smoked rye, I used pecan wood
3.5 2-row
1.1 dark brown malt (175L, toasted in oven at 400 for 50 min)
.25 oats
1oz Willamette 60 min
WY1318 London ale III
66/10/7%

In a smoked rye porter, I think you could use almost any ale yeast and not notice much difference. I used the Willamette because I didn't like it as a flavor hop and wanted to go through my half-pound, so you could use whatever. I have no way to say how my smoked malt compares to the various commercial varieties, but I would guess that Briess' Cherrywood malt is the closest thing. Smoked malt varies considerably from company and with freshness; and what tastes lightly smoky to me might taste like an ashtray to someone else. But if you like smoke, I'd use a lot of smoked malt and just let it fade if it ends up being too much for you.
I am debating whether to have a flavor addition of hops. They aren't really needed and I doubt they would give much to this beer since there is so much going on. I don't mind the smoke either, but I definitely don't want it to over power the beer--only a subtle flavor.
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Old 10-18-2012, 04:52 PM   #6
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I skipped the flavoring hops for the reasons you mentioned. I couldn't see them adding anything I'd notice, unless I used way too many. I leave them out of most off my big, dark monsters, and don't miss them at all. With smoke on top of that, you won't need them, and they might just bring out the bitterness of the smoke in an undesirable way.

I like my smoked beers agressively smoky, probably much more so than what you want here. If you use the cherrywood, I'd say maybe use it at 20-30%. Use thisthis link, then open the pdf to see what Briess says: http://brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Kilned.htm Aim higher than that (50% or so) for German rauch malt, and way, way lower for peat malt. If the store has all three, chew a little and see what appeals to you. Save the peat for last; it's a palate-wrecker. Both the cherrywood and rauch are enzyme-active, so you can use them as base malts with no conversion worries.

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Old 10-18-2012, 08:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwood-kid View Post
I skipped the flavoring hops for the reasons you mentioned. I couldn't see them adding anything I'd notice, unless I used way too many. I leave them out of most off my big, dark monsters, and don't miss them at all. With smoke on top of that, you won't need them, and they might just bring out the bitterness of the smoke in an undesirable way.

I like my smoked beers agressively smoky, probably much more so than what you want here. If you use the cherrywood, I'd say maybe use it at 20-30%. Use thisthis link, then open the pdf to see what Briess says: http://brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Kilned.htm Aim higher than that (50% or so) for German rauch malt, and way, way lower for peat malt. If the store has all three, chew a little and see what appeals to you. Save the peat for last; it's a palate-wrecker. Both the cherrywood and rauch are enzyme-active, so you can use them as base malts with no conversion worries.
I am going to be using Briess smoked malt, so I am thinking of cutting back on the amount to 1lb and increasing the pale by the same amount. Also re-thinking the black patent: I don't want too much roast in it, nor it being overpowering either. I am going to replace that with black malt, since I still have some in stock.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #8
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I'm going to brew something quite similar but bigger:
6.6 gallons batch(25L)
Wayermann rauch malt - 50% - 5kg
Wayermann munich 1 - 15% - 1.5kg
Wayermann abbey malt(17L) - 5% - 0.5kg
Wayermann rye malt - 15% - 1.5kg
Muntons 60L caramel malt - 3.5% - 0.35kg
Muntons 95L caramel malt - 3.5% - 0.35kg
Muntons 150L caramel malt - 3% - 0.3kg
Muntons chocolate malt(385L) - 3.5% - 0.35kg
Muntons black malt - 1.5% - 0.15kg
Hops: Northern Brewer or pacific jade, 30gr diveded to 40 and 30 min.

yeast: US-05

aged on american oak cubes, medium toasted soaked in rye whisky for a month or so.

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Old 01-24-2013, 03:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
I don't have any personal experience with smoked malts but that amount seems a bit high,
I don't have experience w/ peated malt, but I completely disagree if we're talking beechwood smoked. A buddy talked me into brewing my recent Rauchbier w/ essentially 100% smoked malt, and while it's definitely very smokey, it's not by any means harsh or off-putting (IMO).
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