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**Revvy** · 09-14-2010, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKershner

I doubt the hops will be the focus at all. You may get a note of bitterness, but IMO this will still be a malt-forward brew.

I also think that is too much victory (although the name of the malt is pretty ironic if you make it to 50). Something like 2lbs would be my max tolerance for it. Although, if you really like a bready taste, then your current recipe would work fine.

I also think you should probably add some sugar in here to thin this thing out, or else you may have a hell of a time getting the FG down...

Good news!! I got three pounds of the Cara Brown, so all is not lost.

Part of the reason for using Victory IS for the name...plus I've used it in my brown ale. Though I may take everyone's suggestions and cut it back.

Don't you think the pound and a half of that special honey is enough of a simple sugar to help bring it down?

DKershner · 09-14-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revvy

Don't you think the pound and a half of that special honey is enough of a simple sugar to help bring it down?

A few things here...

I don't like beers that remind me of maple syrup. DFH 120min is a good example of that. For this reason, I really try to dry the crap out of big beers which means a higher dose of the simple sugars.

Secondly, when working with the big boys, I really like staggered sugar additions to help fermentation along. The yeast seem to really like the simple sugars once that ABV starts getting into the 9-10% range and almost seem to need them as an appetizer to their maltose meal. I like to do staggered additions, I would probably do 3 or 4 in your recipes case.

I am by no means a big beer expert, but in my limited experience it has really seemed to help. EDIT: You may be able to pull off a similar effect by using jars of less concentrated wort. I know some guy on BYO did that in a 21% All Grain (No Sugar) Brew.

**AZ_IPA** · 09-14-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revvy

Part of the reason for using Victory IS for the name...

That's what I thought when I put 2 lbs in a 5 gallon batch of pale ale....

But, it may work in something as big as this.

**Revvy** · 09-15-2010, 02:50 PM

Well I had a very interesting and educational night with MustangJ and his brew buddy and beer judge Bill which gave me some unique insight and tips for brewing this monster. Especially a complex "yeast regimen" which should get the beer low AND get those complexities from the belgian yeast. Turns out playing with beersmith this is not too uncommon. I'll explain in a bit.

First. They tend to think that after 5 years that Breadiness, like the hoppiness will mellow out, so keeping it at that level is not an issue...though I'm thinking I might want some raisiny notes in it, so I might play with some special b, and reduce the victory, but I'm not sure.

Sugar is a must (as is yeast nutrient, energizer, and plenty of oxygen including the second blast in the first 12 hours after fermentation has begun.

Decocting a gallon or so isn't a bad idea during the mash. It will add some more depth.

Now to the very interesting yeasting schedule. (This is cool, and really a new concept for me, but it make sense.)

They recommend pitching a huge starter using two vials of the cali ale yeast, and as big of a starter as I can grow in the next few days.

Also on brew day reserve a half gallon of my wort til later.

Then a week into fermentation or after the krausen falls pitch another starter of the cali ale yeast. (1 0r wo tubes) This will help bring the beer down further.

THEN after about 2 weeks of this, when fermentation appears stalled to rack it to secondary and using that half gallon of reserved wort, make another starter this time with 2 vials of the trappist ale yeast. At this point I could actually let the temps drift up a little too. This will get me some of the esters and spiciness from the trappist yeast, and also hopefully get the last of the fermentable sugars.

They think I can get this puppy down even further than Beersmith says it will be.

There is a button on beersmith to indicate adding more yeast in secondary, which I never noticed before.

I'll probably want to rack it to a tertiary to get it off the final yeast to allow it to bulk age before I bottle it.

Pretty wild, eh?

Starderup · 09-15-2010, 02:55 PM

After all that, you BETTER be around to sample it!

**johnnybrew** · 09-15-2010, 03:08 PM

This is a great idea and thread. I am inspired to try making a barleywine some day too. Thanks for all of the information, Revvy.

DKershner · 09-15-2010, 03:29 PM

For one, I think that the strategy you have laid out sounds clean and will definitely do the job and that the extra work you are putting in will pay dividends in the final beer.

Secondly, will that yeast starter schedule really help? I feel like it is similar to a stuck ferment...where you pitch a yeast starter and it does nothing, but then you dump it on a yeast cake and it goes down several more points. I just dont think the starters would have enough cells to actually do anything.

Also, I thought pitching more than one yeast was a recipe to have one completely dominate the other and only one of their flavors would end up in the final beer. I have never tried this myself, but have read that around here.

**Revvy** · 09-15-2010, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKershner

Also, I thought pitching more than one yeast was a recipe to have one completely dominate the other and only one of their flavors would end up in the final beer. I have never tried this myself, but have read that around here.

That's the point of not doing the two yeasts at the same time, it shouldn't cause one to dominate the other. Or in a sense the clean, cali ale yeast will do the job of fermenting the majority of the beer and the trappist later, will produce some esters and other complexities with any remaining sugars left over.

DKershner · 09-15-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revvy

That's the point of not doing the two yeasts at the same time, it shouldn't cause one to dominate the other. Or in a sense the clean, cali ale yeast will do the job of fermenting the majority of the beer and the trappist later, will produce some esters and other complexities with any remaining sugars left over.

Seems like if the Cali yeast still has sugars around, they will still be around to beat up any belgians who enter their turf. You know those Californians...

**Revvy** · 09-15-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKershner

Seems like if the Cali yeast still has sugars around, they will still be around to beat up any belgians who enter their turf. You know those Californians...

LOL.... Yeah, we'll see.

Though I have to say Hercule Poirot could swing a might cane on someone's toe.