Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Help with an IIPA recipe - advice appreciated!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-29-2010, 02:54 PM   #1
BlueWolf
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 45
Default Help with an IIPA recipe - advice appreciated!

Hey guys and gals, I’m looking for a little bit of help please. I’ve been brewing for about a year, with around 16 batches under my belt. Mostly partial mashes since I can’t do a full boil at the moment. I’ve learned a lot over those 16 batches, but I’m still a novice.

Long story short, my dad and I were kicking back with family over Thanksgiving drinking some local Michigan brew. Everyone was chatting about the good beer, some of mine included, and my father offered to buy the ingredients for a batch if we could make one together, no price limit.

His words were “I want an epic Imperial IPA, and I want it to be glorious. I don’t care what it costs.” Hah, ok Dad, now we’re talking my language. Then he told me he wants it a minimum of 10%, more if we can. I’m not looking for anything ridiculous, so I don’t really want to aim for more than 11 or 12% at most. Hell, that’s more than enough.

My biggest concern is keeping the beer from being overly sweet, so figuring out what yeast to use really has me stumped. I typically have good brew house efficiency of around 75% even partial mashing, but I’d like a yeast that can handle that high of abv and still attenuate well. I don’t normally make my bears that high. Usually they’re in the 6- 7% range, so my experience is limited here.

Equipment : 10 Gallon Rubbermaid round MLT, about a 5.5 gallon boil pot, two - 6.5 gallon bucket primaries, 6 gallon better bottle primary, and one 5 gallon better bottle secondary.

House efficiency around 75% with roughly 1/3 of the base typically being extract due to the low boil volume. (My mash efficiency keeps getting better and better as time goes on)

So here are my questions:

- What yeast should I use if aiming for good attenuation at 10+abv. I was considering Nottingham since I’ve had excellent results with it in the past, but I haven’t used any other high attenuating yeasts in that high of an alcohol range before. Suggestions would be appreciated.

- He wants a hop profile that is piney, and with me favoring citrus/piney flavors, I was thinking Northern Brewer and Centennial, maybe with a touch of Cascade at flavoring. What hop profile would you folks suggest?

- Is there a point to using MO as part of the base grain, or will the character of MO be lost amongst all of the hops?

- How much crystal malt is worth putting in? I usually aim for around 5% depending on the beer, but I’ve never made an IIPA this beefy before.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I may have some further questions as I have my head buried in recipes and brewtarget.

Thanks in advance!

__________________
BlueWolf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2010, 03:49 PM   #2
jeburgdo
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 446
Liked 10 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueWolf View Post
“I want an epic Imperial IPA, and I want it to be glorious. I don’t care what it costs.”
Now that is awesome. I certainly wouldn't let that go to waste!

My advice would be not to use Nottingham. I can't see that tasting right with all those American hops. Chinook could be a good addition for piney/citrus.

I'm sure with a thread like this you'll get plenty of replies, so I'll let those with more IIPAs under their belt give better advice than me. I just wanted to chime in after reading your dad's quote.
__________________
jeburgdo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2010, 04:49 PM   #3
ElevenFingers
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 9
Default

Sounds like fun.

I have never used Nottingham in an IIPA, but it should be alcohol tolerant enough to get the job done. Last one I made I used Northwest Ale. By all means keep the crystal down as it can be distracting when used with too heavy a hand in this style. To keep it from being overly sweet mash low, especially in such a big beer and if you are going to use extract. Some table sugar will also help to keep it dry, bump up the OG and abv without increasing your boil volume, and can even be added during primary. I tend to use a lb in an IIPA with great results.
Chinook like the above poster mentioned would work for pine, I also find simcoe to have a piney flavor/aroma, but I caution I have never used them together.

__________________
ElevenFingers is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2010, 04:50 PM   #4
ElevenFingers
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 9
Default

Oh and a big starter.... don't forget that...

__________________
ElevenFingers is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2010, 05:34 PM   #5
lyacovett
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Cartersville, GA
Posts: 266
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Chico is a good yeast for IIPA. Clean if ferm temps are under control, and it will dry it out nice. You could probably use no Crystal at all, and you should have plenty of body getting the gravity that high.

When I do something like this I mash low (149). I get around 80% attenuation from Chico with a big starter. I also like Centennial hops. I like to bitter with something like Columbus, flavor and aroma with Centennial, then dry hop with Amarillo ... but thats just me.

__________________
lyacovett is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2010, 05:51 PM   #6
gnuworldorder
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: state college, pa
Posts: 16
Default

nugget or warrior hops would be the two that i would suggest they have a resiny smell/flavor with a citrus aftertaste.

__________________
gnuworldorder is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-29-2010, 06:20 PM   #7
kanzimonson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,987
Liked 29 Times on 25 Posts

Default

Your biggest problem is going to be with the partial boil. This leads to multiple issues:

1) You'll have to use extract, and it generally doesn't attenuate as well.
2) Your hop utilization won't be great because of the concentration.
3) You'll lose a lot of wort to all the hops you'll need.

I think that you're really going to have to consider boiling in two pots. Maybe one of them is just for the runnings from the mash and the hops, and the other one is to boil some DME in water. This will allow you to get a lot of use out of your hops, and you won't lose as many sugars to the trub. You need to go into this with a high expectation of not hitting your OG, or at least have thought very deeply about how you will measure your gravity and be able to add more DME to compensate.

As for grain composition, I love Maris Otter but I think you'll probably just want to stick with 2row for simplicity. 5% crystal sounds fine - use your crystal for flavor and color rather than sweetness because you'll get that from the extract. I recommend at least 10% granulated sugar to help with attenuation. Just add it to the fermentor at pitching time.

Stick with one of the higher attenuation yeast strains. 001, 051, or even 007 (if you're okay with some extra maltiness). Make a starter that's about 5-10% larger than Mr Malty recommends. If you don't have oxygen capabilities, make it 10-15% larger.

You'll need to aim for an OG of about 1.080-1.095. I'm guessing that you won't be able to attenuate beyond 1.015 and that's if everything goes perfectly. To get 10%ABV you'll need to attenuate about 75 gravity points. Let's say worst case you don't attenuate past 1.025... that means you need to start with an OG of 1.100. If you're lucky and think you can get down to 1.010, then your OG will need to be 1.085. So work with those numbers.

As for hop bill, I recommend mixing some citrus and pine together. Amarillo for citrus, Simcoe for citrus and pine, and a wildcard of Centennial for some coolness and floral flavors. Don't even try to calculate IBUs, just put in a huge charge of a high alpha hop - doesn't really matter which variety - use at least 2-3oz. Then pick out your finishing hops. You should have at least 5oz of finishing hops, and as much as say 8oz or more? At least 2oz at flameout and 2oz at 10min, but feel free to up these.

Considering all the hops you'll use, you might want to figure out a way to really squeeze out everything from the hops after the brew. Maybe you even reserve a whole gallon of clean, hot water just for sparging the hops?

Have you read Designing Great Beers? If you understand the concept of total gravity units and gravity units per gallon then you'll be able to figure out how much DME you'll need to boil in a separate pot.

__________________
kanzimonson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 12:47 PM   #8
BlueWolf
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 45
Default

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated!

More questions below.

Kanzimonson: You hit a lot of points I've been thinking about. Getting a good enough attenuation out of it and hitting my OG has been a big question for me, and I'm considering taking this opportunity to say "Screw it" and finally go the extra step for all grain. I don't have trouble getting almost 5 gallons of wort to boil on my stove, what's the likelihood I'll have trouble with 7 gallons on my gas stove?

Losing volume to the mass amounts of trub has been another thing I've been thinking about. I'm wondering if it would be worth using a hop bag(s) for both the boil and the dry hop to help keep the trub level down. Would that help?

I had been planning on using 10-15% corn sugar/table sugar to help boost the abv and dry it out a bit more. With the hop level shooting way into tooth enamel stripping ranges, could I even bump that closer to 20%, or would any off flavors still show through?

The good news is that we're not planning on brewing this one up until sometime in January, so it gives me some time to plan all of this out.

For yeasts, I've used 001 many times, I just wasn't sure how it would perform in those high of ranges. It's one of my favorite strains, along with 005 and Denny's Favorite 50. I didn't think either of the latter choices would be very good, but again, I don't have a lot of experience brewing monster beers in this range.

Thanks again to all for the feedback. I'm still tossing a bunch of hop flavor combination's around my head. Knowing my Dad likes Centennial in the flavor area, that gives me a good place to start at least.

__________________
BlueWolf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 01:49 PM   #9
Sleepyemt
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Woodstock, Ga
Posts: 352
Liked 8 Times on 8 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

Kanzimonson really highlights some great points so no need to rehash that, 001, 051 or the equivalent 1056 and 1272 are all great, you could do 1084 which is supposed to be great for high gravity according to wyeast website. http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=6

I would suggest trying to go no higher that 10-12% on the sugar, and consider putting some of that in close to the end of fermentation, It'll help reach terminal gravity.

Really consider Late hopping for the flavor development, Simcoe will give you that Signature piney flavor.
Good luck!

__________________
Blue Note Brewery
Sleepyemt is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-30-2010, 01:50 PM   #10
kanzimonson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,987
Liked 29 Times on 25 Posts

Default

I can't give you any experiential advice on boiling that much on a stove top... from what I've read some people have powerful enough ranges to do it but most people don't. It's a good sign that you can boil 5 without a problem.

A hop bag in the boil will help with trub loss, but only because you can suspend it over the BK after the boil and wring it out... but don't spend too long with this because you don't want cooled wort exposed to the air for long. I still think sparging the trub is a better idea (which could be done efficiently in a hop bag).

I think you're just going to have to accept trub loss with the dry hopping... that's not the kind of thing you want to wring out because of oxygenation.

As for sugar, I think you could go as high as 20% with no off flavors. I'm actually less concerned about off flavors than an overly dry beer. It's just a balancing act and having an idea what FG your beer will finish. Look over your previous beers to get an idea of the expected attenuation.

If you've used 001 and like it, use it again. It will be fine at the 10% alcohol range. Personally I hate that yeast because of its terrible flocculation, but that's why it's such a great attenuator. Common wisdom is that any yeast can ferment up to 10%, so long as you pitch ULTRA healthy yeast.

__________________
kanzimonson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Porter Recipe Critique - Any help appreciated! sundaybrewingco Recipes/Ingredients 5 07-24-2010 02:05 PM
My first attempt at an ESB - advice/critique needed and appreciated! krugulitis Recipes/Ingredients 26 01-25-2010 11:52 AM
First recipe - feedback appreciated stageseven Recipes/Ingredients 6 06-27-2009 03:04 AM
First Custom Homebrew Recipe - Any Help Appreciated loosey Recipes/Ingredients 5 07-08-2008 10:58 PM
Trying to balance a recipe... Help would be appreciated!! Anthony_Lopez Recipes/Ingredients 11 03-19-2008 05:26 PM