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Old 02-05-2009, 04:34 PM   #1
OctopusInk
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Default Help with house Pale Ale

First off here is the recipe.

6 lb Pale LME
1 lb Wheat LME
1 lb Crystal Malt 20L
.5 lb Cara Pils
1oz Columbus 60 min
.5oz Centennial 15min
.5oz Cascade 5 min
1oz Irish moss 5 min
.5oz Cascade 0 min
1.5 oz Centennial dry

WLP060 American Ale Yeast

OG 1.058
FG 1.006
10 days primary
10 days secondary

I pieced this recipe together from the forums and some suggestions from my LHBS. The problem I have is that it tastes very perfumy and not as clear as I would have liked. I kegged it and let it sit for a while, but it is now cold and carbonated with a lot of perfume and not as much bitterness as I would have liked. Any ideas on how to improve this recipe, or replace a few things so I can get the true pale ale taste I am looking for?

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Old 02-05-2009, 05:12 PM   #2
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1) Dump the wheat. That is where you are likely getting the cloudiness and it doesn't really belong in a Pale Ale.
2) Not knowing exactly this "perfume" scent, I might suggest trying a different yeast (maybe WLP001 or Nottingham). Could also have something to do with fermentation temps.
3) You only had an ounce of Columbus for bittering. Maybe thing about another half ounce at 30 min or something.

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Old 02-05-2009, 05:29 PM   #3
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Are you performing full boils?
What IBU rating are you assuming?

If you are performing a partial boil, the utilization of the hops could be decreased resulting in a lower than expected IBU rating. You could potentially increase the bittering hops to accomodate for this, or add a portion of your extract late in the boil to decrease the original boil gravity.

I would assume that your beer would be perfumey with all of those late addition and dry hops. Perhaps the aroma your picking up on is from an increased fermentation temp. You could also try different hop varieties to see if the aroma is from one of those. However, I see nothing wrong with cascade and centennial.

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Old 02-05-2009, 08:41 PM   #4
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I ferment at 68F. I originally added the wheat for head retention, but now I see that it was a mistake. I don't think I will dry hop again, just add those hops at 30 mins. I do 60 min boil and do half the malt up front and half at 45-30 mins. Beersmith had the IBUs at 41.3, but the bitterness is overpowered by the flower perfume smell. Should I think about different hops? I have used WLP0001 in the past and I liked it so I think I will go back to that. Anything else?

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Old 02-05-2009, 09:03 PM   #5
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I would say maybe a little more hops for the 60 min boil to get more bitterness out of your brew. Or just make an IPA... where the more bitter the better IMO

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Old 02-05-2009, 09:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker36 View Post
1) Dump the wheat. That is where you are likely getting the cloudiness and it doesn't really belong in a Pale Ale.
That's not true. Lots of American Pale Ales contain wheat malt. At that small of a percentage, it is not going to affect cloudiness one bit.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:08 PM   #7
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I think centennial hops are very "floral" but it does fade with time. When I made my Lil Bastard recipe, I told the_bird that I hated centennial hops because this beer tasted like ****ing flowers. Maybe that's the "perfume" odor you're getting?

The good news is that it fades- ALOT! Just be patient, it'll come around! That's alot of centennial late, and I bet that's the issue.

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Old 02-05-2009, 09:16 PM   #8
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As far as improving the recipe you have, though- I'd suggest getting some brewing software and moving the dry hopped centennials (or at least some of them) so you have about 35 IBUs at 60 minutes. Then, use the later additions for the flavor and aroma. If you keep the OG at 1.058 or so, and end up with around 40-43 IBUs total, that would give you a nice hoppy but balanced beer. (Actually, with 1 ounce of columbus at 60 minutes, you should have plenty of bitterness, so I'm not sure why you don't- that's more IBUs than I suggested, probably, depending on your AAUs of those hops). Any more hops, and you're headed into IPA territory.

Dryhop with cascade or amarillo, if you don't like the floral quality, and would rather have citrus notes.

Edit- I just realized that you may have not done a full boil. If you boiled 2.5 gallons of wort, that would explain why your beer isn't very bitter. If you did boil a smaller amount of wort, the IBUs from the columbus would be in the 20-22 IBU range. You definitely would need more hops for bittering!

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Old 02-05-2009, 09:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoChef View Post
That's not true. Lots of American Pale Ales contain wheat malt. At that small of a percentage, it is not going to affect cloudiness one bit.
I agree. I tend to put 8oz. of wheat malt in most of beers, adds a bit of protein that can really help the head retention. 1lb. of extract is probably about half wheat, so I think that is right on track.

Perfumey, yeah, I could see that from Centennial. I would recommend working out the bitterness issues (as recommended here) and brew it again, same beer. Then keg it, carb it, and try it before the dry hop. See how you like that. You might decide you don't need the dry hops, if you want to add them, add them in a hop bag in the keg to taste.
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Old 02-06-2009, 03:47 AM   #10
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The problem with adding the rest, or half in your case, of the malt extract at 45-30 minutes, is that the boil gravity is only low for 15-30 minutes. Obviously this gives a large leeway in the IBU department. The thicker your boil with sugar, the less utilization your going to get with the hops. A good way to fix this is to add half of your sugar (DME) at 60 and the rest at flameout. This way the malt is still sanitized but your boil is half the OG you are thinking of, giving a better hop utilization. Hot break shouldnt be worried about since you are using all extract.

I believe the wheat malt shouldnt be a problem. Many recipes have wheat malt in small proportions to add to foam stability. This is essentially what you have with the wheat LME. Usually what extract is 60 barley and 40 wheat, so in your case roughly half a pound of wheat. That is fine.

I do not know what kind of 'pale ale taste you are looking for' but late addition american C hops are going to give you perfume.....Tasty, tasty, perfume. However, if this is not the aroma you are detecting, again I would revisit fermentation temps.

Make sure, or at least have a good idea, that the temp inside your fermentation vessel is what you believe to actually be occurring. Often times the fermentation temperature inside the bucket is about 10 degrees above ambient temps. This is because of the exothermic fermentation reaction.

Hope this helps.

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