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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > Heady Topper- Can you clone it?
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:19 PM   #11
EyePeeA
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I had myself some fresh Heady Topper this weekend. Seriously considering cloning it.

For a 5.5 gallon batch, I'm thinking:

3-4 oz. hops in the boil (90 min boil is typical for commercial IIPAs)
4 oz. warm & cold hopstand/hopback
6 oz. three-stage, 12 day dryhop

Not including HopShot, which I'm guessing is basic CTZ, the recipe appears to be Simcoe & Columbus heavy with support from Chinook, Nugget, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade (one too many hop varieties it seems? I would say nix Cascade since it's most similar to Centennial.)

The website doesn't list the actual IBUs. It just says PLENTY. They do list IBUs for other beers referenced at 100 even. So I would assume the theoretical IBUs are much higher than 100, which would point toward a very hefty bittering addition of the HopShot... well over 100 total IBUs.

58-63 F initial fermentation, then raise to 68 F for the dryhop.
28 days grain to glass.

Was the issue of whether Kimmich is using Oat malt or Golden Naked Oats ever addressed? I thought that some kind of oat was a definite.

How about the mash temp? 148 F for 2 hours? I would think that if there was no simple sugars in the recipe, this would certainly help with fermentability and 85% attenuation with Conan. The carapils, wheat, and oats will take care of the body and head retention.

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Old 02-14-2013, 09:24 PM   #12
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Nice... Good input here. Appreciate it.

I'll be adding more than my two cents shortly within the next week or two.

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Old 02-14-2013, 09:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EyePeeA View Post
I had myself some fresh Heady Topper this weekend. Seriously considering cloning it.

For a 5.5 gallon batch, I'm thinking:

3-4 oz. hops in the boil (90 min boil is typical for commercial IIPAs)
4 oz. warm & cold hopstand/hopback
6 oz. three-stage, 12 day dryhop

Not including HopShot, which I'm guessing is basic CTZ, the recipe appears to be Simcoe & Columbus heavy with support from Chinook, Nugget, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade (one too many hop varieties it seems? I would say nix Cascade since it's most similar to Centennial.)

The website doesn't list the actual IBUs. It just says PLENTY. They do list IBUs for other beers referenced at 100 even. So I would assume the theoretical IBUs are much higher than 100, which would point toward a very hefty bittering addition of the HopShot... well over 100 total IBUs.

58-63 F initial fermentation, then raise to 68 F for the dryhop.
28 days grain to glass.

Was the issue of whether Kimmich is using Oat malt or Golden Naked Oats ever addressed? I thought that some kind of oat was a definite.

How about the mash temp? 148 F for 2 hours? I would think that if there was no simple sugars in the recipe, this would certainly help with fermentability. The carapils, wheat, and oats will take care of the body and head retention.

Im using golden oats for my upcoming attempt. To me the body and to a lesser extent malt flavor is similar to Abrasive, which uses golden oats(and brewers crystal, which I would be surprised if it is in HT). I do believe HT has less body and is drier.

Im going 5ish% golden oats and 10ish% corn sugar with the balance being pearl.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EyePeeA View Post
I had myself some fresh Heady Topper this weekend. Seriously considering cloning it.

For a 5.5 gallon batch, I'm thinking:

3-4 oz. hops in the boil (90 min boil is typical for commercial IIPAs)
4 oz. warm & cold hopstand/hopback
6 oz. three-stage, 12 day dryhop

Not including HopShot, which I'm guessing is basic CTZ, the recipe appears to be Simcoe & Columbus heavy with support from Chinook, Nugget, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade (one too many hop varieties it seems? I would say nix Cascade since it's most similar to Centennial.)

The website doesn't list the actual IBUs. It just says PLENTY. They do list IBUs for other beers referenced at 100 even. So I would assume the theoretical IBUs are much higher than 100, which would point toward a very hefty bittering addition of the HopShot... well over 100 total IBUs.

58-63 F initial fermentation, then raise to 68 F for the dryhop.
28 days grain to glass.

Was the issue of whether Kimmich is using Oat malt or Golden Naked Oats ever addressed? I thought that some kind of oat was a definite.

How about the mash temp? 146-148 F for 2 hours? I would think that if there was no simple sugars in the recipe, this would certainly help with fermentability and 85% attenuation with Conan. 5% or less each of carapils, wheat, and oats will take care of the body and head retention.
Have thought about 90 minute boil and naked oats too. Kimmich calculates 120 IBUs and the lab has analyzed the finish product finished with 75-80 after losses during the brew, fermentation, etc. From my two batches, I think somewhere from 70-80IBU from the hop shot works for me. It's going to be brewery dependent though, depends on your setup and whirlpool temp/time. No confirmation on oats one way or another.

I have had Conan go down to below 1.010 and it doesn't seem to need too much help getting down there and up towards 85%+. I've been mashing at 149 for 60 minutes.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theveganbrewer View Post
Kimmich calculates 120 IBUs and the lab has analyzed the finish product finished with 75-80 after losses during the brew, fermentation, etc. From my two batches, I think somewhere from 70-80IBU from the hop shot works for me. It's going to be brewery dependent though, depends on your setup and whirlpool temp/time.
It's quite difficult to try to figure out a hop schedule with a recipe builder if we're given all of these IBU figures to work with and can't decide on 60 vs. 90 minute boil times. I think if one were to build a recipe, we would have to base it on 120+ IBUs Tinseth. Which formula do you think Kimmich uses? (tinseth/rager/garetz/other)

Quote:
Originally Posted by theveganbrewer View Post
Mash at 149 for 60 minutes.
11# Pearl, 1# Munich, 8oz Carapils, 8oz Dextrose

Boil for 60 minutes.
6mL of hop extract added at 60 minutes.
With 6ml HopShot, it appears that you are adding 60 IBUs at boil start for your clone attempt. I was thinking of using more like 8-10 ml at 90 minutes and letting either one of the three (15, 10, or 5 minute) additions do the rest. Then nothing else until whirlpool and dryhop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theveganbrewer View Post
I have had Conan go down to below 1.010 and it doesn't seem to need too much help getting down there and up towards 85%+. I've been mashing at 149 for 60 minutes.
Was this also with the 8 oz. Dextrose?
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EyePeeA View Post
It's quite difficult to try to figure out a hop schedule with a recipe builder if we're given all of these IBU figures to work with and can't decide on 60 vs. 90 minute boil times. I think if one were to build a recipe, we would have to base it on 120+ IBUs Tinseth. Which formula do you think Kimmich uses? (tinseth/rager/garetz/other)

With 6ml HopShot, it appears that you are adding 60 IBUs at boil start for your clone attempt. I was thinking of using more like 8-10 ml at 90 minutes and letting either one of the three (15, 10, or 5 minute) additions do the rest. Then nothing else until whirlpool and dryhop.

Was this also with the 8 oz. Dextrose?
We've got two hop numbers, 120 into the recipe, 75-80 in the can. Those lab IBU numbers don't have an effect on the recipe, they were just given to us by the head brewer. We're never going to figure out the final numbers of bitterness in homebrew, so the recipes are geared towards 120-125 IBU. I don't think we know what formula Kimmich uses. I use Tinseth.


Yes, the hopshot is basically 10IBU per 1mL in this gravity. In my notes you can see I think 7-8ml works for me on bitterness. Yours may be right at more like 8-10. We simply haven't had enough attempts to know right now. I think we've only had maybe 5 real attempts at cloning this, so there is significant work and research still to come, try your ideas and post the results. I'm sure everyone would like to hear your results with more hopshot, it's certainly something I've thought about. Kimmich says he uses extract to get bitterness without all the vegetal mass of hops, he also says that Heady isn't their hoppiest beer. Water profiles can also alter bitterness perception a lot.

Kimmich has said he does the extract for bittering, then no additions until 5 minutes. Then whirlpool. Up to you if you want to work within those constraints or go in another direction.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:49 PM   #17
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Hi all!

Im from New Zealand and last night was talking to the head brewer at a Brew Pub here in Hamilton and he used to work with a guy over in a brewery in the U.S that knows the guys from alchemistbeer. He was saying that they deal direct with NZ hops and he reckons they use an extract blend of all NZ hops
(obviously a secret blend) for all the boil additions and then dry hopped with pellets. He wasn't sure the origin of the pellet hops. Just going of what i was told... not sure if that's any help to you at all!

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Old 02-15-2013, 12:55 AM   #18
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dont forget that they add a enzyme to the beer

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Old 02-15-2013, 12:56 AM   #19
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if someone can ship me a vial of conan to attempt a clone, i'll pay the shipping fees

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Old 02-15-2013, 01:39 AM   #20
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Just posting to sub to the new thread!

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