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Old 02-14-2013, 07:23 PM   #1
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Default Heady Topper- Can you clone it?

Let's get this great beer cloned. Here is a summary of what is known about the Heady Topper recipe from kaz4121:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaz4121 View Post
Between the HBT and BA threads I’ve summed up all the pertinent information regarding a Heady Topper clone. Keep in mind much of this information is heresay, but I tried to credit the member and link to the page which contains the claim. If I am missing something please let me know, as I think this post has been veered off topic a bit lately.

Anything italicized is linked directly to John Kimmich, his workers, or The Alchemist Brewery in general.

Beer Specs:
Style: American Double India Pale Ale (The Alchemist Brewery website)
OG: ~1.074 (theveganbrewer)
FG: ~1.014 (theveganbrewer) (Johnnyhitch1)
ABV: 8% (The Alchemist Brewery website)
IBU: 120 (The Alchemist Brewery website), 80-90 Rager (bobbrews), 75-80 lab tested (theveganbrewer)
SRM: 4-7 (theveganbrewer, koopa, and Airborneguy)

Malt:
Base: Thomas Fawcett Pearl (bobbrews and nathanjohnson)
Specialty: NO Crystal (theveganbrewer, mmonacel, and sweetcell)
Adjunct: ~5% or less sugar (orthellomcbane and skivtjerry)
*Other possibilities may include: Wheat, Munich, Carapils*

If similar malt bill to El Jefe, could contain Pearl, Caramalt, Carafa Special III (ChrisNH)

Hops:
6 varieties used (theveganbrewer, bobbrews, and Petekiteworld)
Known: Simcoe (bobbrews) Amarillo (theveganbrewer)
Likely: Columbus, Chinook, Centennial, Cascade, Summit, Nugget
Possible: Riwaka, Moteuka, Ahtanum, Galaxy, Zythos, Apollo
Not used: Citra (bobbrews and theveganbrewer)

Yeast:
Conan Yeast (private strain) (MSNBC article and theveganbrewer)
Yeast culturing: here and here
*Most of aroma comes from yeast (theveganbrewer)*
*Could be ale yeast (theveganbrewer), lager yeast (TapeDeck), belgian yeast (Signpost Brewing and the Mad Fermentationist, or blend (terrapinj)*

Process:
Mash Temperature: < 150F (bobbrews and orthellomcbane) probably a step mash (bobbrews)
Boil: NO FWH (theveganbrewer)
CO2 hop extract for bittering (theveganbrewer, BeerCrafter2011, and mmonacel)
Hop Schedule: All "actual" hops added at 5 minutes or less (theveganbrewer)
Post-boil: Big whirlpool less than 45 minutes (theveganbrewer) (telejunkie via BeerAdvocate)
Fermentation temperature: 71/72F at brewery (Johnnyhitch1) 58F at brewery (Skelator), 68F on sign (theveganbrewer), 60-64F from experience (Knecht_Rupprecht, SkinnyPete, NordeastBrewer77, and orthellomcbane). Chilling row 55F, 48F two days later at the brewery (Johnnyhitch1)
Yeast Attenuation: ~82% (bobbrews, orthellomcbane, Skelator)
Dry-hopping: Double or triple dry-hopped for only several days each (mmonacel)
Hopback: Used prior to packaging (Petekiteworld)
*It is not can-conditioned (LaFinDuMonde),*

Entire length from kettle to can: 28 days Alchemist Blog http://www.alchemistbeer.com/hoppy-holidays/

Similar Beers (to help with recipe formulation?): Lagunitas Hop Stoopid, Ithica Flower Power, Surley Abrasive, Kern River Citra DIPA

Current Best Clone
Current Clone

Heady Topper Clone Recipe Attempt 4 from http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady...lone-brew-4-0/

Batch Size: 5.00 gal

Boil Size: 6.47

11lb 4oz Pearl Malt (84.9%)- SRM 2.4
12 oz Caramalt (5.7%)- SRM 17
12 oz White Wheat (5.7%)- SRM 1.7
8 oz Turbinado Sugar (3.8%)- Added at flameout.
Mash at 150 degrees for 60 minutes.

Boil Time: 90 min

10.00 ml** *Hopshot- Boil 90.0 min- 117.8 IBUs
1.00 oz*** Simcoe[13.00 %] Boil 5.0 min-8.3 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo- Boil 5.0 min -4.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min &ndash; 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
1.00oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz** *Simcoe [13.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days -0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz** *Centennial [10.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz** *Apollo [17.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs

Split dry hop in half and add half on day 14 and day 21. Carb on day 25.


Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG** *Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG** *Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %** *Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.5 %
Bitterness: 130.7 IBUs** *Calories: 249.4 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6.4 SRM

http://www.signpostbrewing.com/heady...lone-brew-4-0/

I know I decided on dry hop day to cut down the Columbus from 1.50 ounce to 1 ounce. I think I also replaced that half ounce with something else, but I can't remember. I remember going up to 0.75 ounces of something in dryhop 1, it was either Amarillo or Centennial. The 2nd stage was 1 oz Simcoe, 0.5 Columbus, 0.5 Amarillo, 0.5 Centennial, and 0.25 Apollo though.
Recipe Resources:
CO2 Hop Extract: Purchase from Northern Brewer, Yakima Valley Hops, Brew Brothers

Pearl Malt: Various Homebrew shops

Conan Yeast: Culturing Conan AKA the Alchemist's Heady Topper Yeast and Culturing Conan Yeast from Heady Topper

Thomas Fawcett Caramalt:

Chicago Brew Works Thomas Fawcett Caramalt 1lb

Brew Brothers

Also, the link on the Brew Brothers hop extract is invalid, it should be

http://www.brewbrothers.biz/Hop-JizzTM
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:27 PM   #2
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Cool. I'm definitely interested in the results.

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Old 02-14-2013, 07:31 PM   #3
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Excellent call, Vegan. I'm about to rack mine into the keg this afternoon for the second dry hopping. Should be drinking on it by next weekend.

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can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:37 PM   #4
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Dry hopped my clone attempt last night. Opened the fermenter and got kicked in the face with a huge aroma of pineapple and peach.

I am using a ratio of 1 oz Simcoe / 0.5 oz Centennial / 0.5 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) / 0.333 oz Amarillo Gold / 0.333 oz Cascade / 0.333 oz Chinook for my dry hoppings this time around.

For the second dry hopping, I will be doing it is a keg so I can rouse with CO2 every 4-6 hrs and then run it through my hopback on the way to a second keg for carbonating.

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Old 02-14-2013, 07:39 PM   #5
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Looking forward to getting my Conan on a plate and getting it going.

So what hops do we KNOW have to be in there?

Simcoe, Cascade, Chinook and Columbus are obvious. Amarillo, Centennial more than likely to round out the 6, no?



Yeast seems to be the defining factor here though.. What temps has everyone fermented at? Do we think that warmer will bring out the sweetness, and if we keep it cooler, it'll allow the sweetness to back off, and the danky bitter piney hops to come forward to balance it out? Sweetness will mask the malty backbone of the beer, which doesn't hide. This is a balanced east coast DIPA, not some out of balanced hop bomb west coast style.

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Old 02-14-2013, 07:42 PM   #6
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Updating with my recent attempt. I should be going to round 2 soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coff View Post
Tasting Notes:

Burnt orange color, murky, dense 1 finger head with tiny bubble shooting up.

Peachy, orange, grapefruit, pinneapple, huge aroma, it basically engulfed the room even the people not drinking the beer got the aroma.

Not as juicy as heady but tons of fruits, orange, mango,
grapefruit amazingly citrusy. Really awesome.

I think the beer needs more pine, I havent had Heady in a month or so but I remember getting a decent amount of pine. Not overwhelming but it was there. I am thinking about dialing back the Amarillo next time, although good I think it was overpowering some of the other hop flavors. However, I love the beer right now, so I am going to have a hard time changing it, lol.

Overall I think it's a very good DIPA, but not heady.




Note the batch size and scale accordingly.

Quote:
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 5.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 4.26 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 4.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 3.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.077 SG
Estimated Color: 5.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 105.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 71.9 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 56.5 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 30.4 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (Briess) (3.5 SRM) Grain 3 8.7 %
8.0 oz Dextrose (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4 4.3 %
1.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 57.8 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 mins) Other 7 -
1.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 16.0 IBUs
0.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 5.2 IBUs
0.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 6.2 IBUs
0.75 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 5.0 Hop 11 8.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 5.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 6.2 IBUs
2.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Aroma Steep 30. Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Nugget [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Aroma Steep 30.0 min Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Aroma St Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Conan (The Alchemist #) Yeast 20 -
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Day Hop 21 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Day Hop 22 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 23 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 24 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 25 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 26 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 14.75 qt of water at 159.5 F 149.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.26gal, 2.63gal) of 170.0 F water
Notes:
------
2 seperate dry hops, 3 oz each for 5 days.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATC1TY View Post
Looking forward to getting my Conan on a plate and getting it going.

So what hops do we KNOW have to be in there?

Simcoe, Cascade, Chinook and Columbus are obvious. Amarillo, Centennial more than likely to round out the 6, no?



Yeast seems to be the defining factor here though.. What temps has everyone fermented at? Do we think that warmer will bring out the sweetness, and if we keep it cooler, it'll allow the sweetness to back off, and the danky bitter piney hops to come forward to balance it out? Sweetness will mask the malty backbone of the beer, which doesn't hide. This is a balanced east coast DIPA, not some out of balanced hop bomb west coast style.
Low 60s. I think most of us are going off of this blog post about Conan:

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2012/09...sts-heady.html There's a heading for temperature where he talks about what he's observed with the yeast at varying temps.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATC1TY View Post
Looking forward to getting my Conan on a plate and getting it going.

So what hops do we KNOW have to be in there?

Simcoe, Cascade, Chinook and Columbus are obvious. Amarillo, Centennial more than likely to round out the 6, no?
Those were my choices. Gravity samples were very "Heady-like", for lack of a better term. Tropical, peachy, some dankness/pine. I'll taste another sample when I rack here in a bit.

Quote:
Yeast seems to be the defining factor here though.. What temps has everyone fermented at? Do we think that warmer will bring out the sweetness, and if we keep it cooler, it'll allow the sweetness to back off, and the danky bitter piney hops to come forward to balance it out? Sweetness will mask the malty backbone of the beer, which doesn't hide. This is a balanced east coast DIPA, not some out of balanced hop bomb west coast style.
Definitely a factor. I fermented mine starting at ~61, then let it finish and sit at ~65. I crashed it down to ~52 for a few days before racking onto the first dry hops. FG was ~1.011, though gassy at transfer. I will double check today. Can't speak to the rest as this is my one batch so far, but I can say that the yeast contributed a lot in mine at those temps.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:06 PM   #9
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Attempt 1:

1.071--->1.010
IBU: 120IBU

Mash at 149 for 60 minutes.
11# Pearl, 1# Munich, 8oz Carapils, 8oz Dextrose

Boil for 60 minutes.
6mL of hop extract added at 60 minutes.

@5 min-
1oz Simcoe
1oz Centennial
1oz Columbus
0.5 Chinook
0.5 Cascade
0.25 Nugget

Whirlpool-30 minutes at 170-175 (lower than planned)
1oz Simcoe
1oz Centennial
1oz Columbus
0.5 Chinook

Began two-stage dry hop when yeast had dropped. Each dry hop when in loose for 4 days, roused every 6 hours with co2 into the keg while at 65+ degrees. Each dry hop was 2.5 ounces of 1oz Simcoe, 0.75oz centennial, 0.75oz Columbus.

Notes-

Sat side by side in same kind of glassware, this was identical to the real Heady. Though the finished product will likely differ from what beersmith says, the recipe said "5.7 SRM".

Grapefruit, peach, pinneapple, mango. Very aromatic, lots of fruit.

I also think the beer needs more pine. This attempt was also not bitter enough, possibly due to the low temp on the whirlpool. Grain bill may need a little tweaking, perhaps with oats or wheat. Perhaps I'll have to crack open the new bag of Amarillo?

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Old 02-14-2013, 08:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FATC1TY View Post
Yeast seems to be the defining factor here though.. What temps has everyone fermented at? Do we think that warmer will bring out the sweetness, and if we keep it cooler, it'll allow the sweetness to back off, and the danky bitter piney hops to come forward to balance it out? Sweetness will mask the malty backbone of the beer, which doesn't hide. This is a balanced east coast DIPA, not some out of balanced hop bomb west coast style.
As with Nordeast, this is my first full scale clone attempt. I fermented mine at 62°F and let it raise to 66°F over 3 days. I didn't do a cold crash for my first dry hopping. I read somewhere from Matt Brynildson (FW Brewmaster) that the hops with help drop the yeast from suspension and want to see if dry hopping with some active yeast does anything.

Sunday, I am going to cold crash for 2-3 days before racking onto the second dry hopping in a keg. Once in the keg I'm going to rouse with co2 through the liquid post every 4-6 hours. After 3 days in the keg, I'm going to run it through my hopback into a second keg for carbonating.
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