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Old 10-03-2008, 07:56 PM   #1
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Default Guinness Clone: Hop Additions

I have seen several recipes and they vary. One that I like uses 3 oz of E. Kent Goldings at 60 minutes and that is it - no flavoring hop additions. Others spread them out as with other recipes. Guinness is not a hoppy beer so I am assuming that the hop flavor should not overwhelm the roasted barley and other grains. What does everyone think especially those that have done Guinness Clone recipes?

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Old 10-03-2008, 08:00 PM   #2
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I only use 60 minute additions in my dry stout (which is what Guinness is). A dry stout isn't hoppy in flavour or aroma but it does need a lot of bitterness to be balanced properly for the style. A small late addition of an earthy hops like Fuggles would probably work well, but you definitely don't want to go overboard.

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Old 10-03-2008, 08:13 PM   #3
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I agree. I think that I'll stick to a 60 minute addition only. Do you think that 3 oz is overkill?

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Old 10-03-2008, 08:22 PM   #4
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It really depends on the AA%. I would imagine that you would want to go for somewhere around 35-40 IBU's.

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Old 10-03-2008, 08:23 PM   #5
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It depends on the AA% of the hops in question and what the target IBU for the recipe is. I use 70G of 4.75% EKG (I think that's about 2.5 ounces) in my dry stout for example. If my EKG was 4% I'd use more.

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Old 10-03-2008, 09:48 PM   #6
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Also depends on whether they're pellet or whole leaf. I'm makign an oatmeal stout tomorrow using 3oz of 4%AA EKG, but they're whole hops, so my IBU should be around 33.

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Old 10-04-2008, 01:36 PM   #7
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Dry Irish Stout should, IMO, display no hops flavor or aroma at all. The commercial standards certainly don't. I challenge anyone to find hops flavor and aroma in Guinness, Beamish or Murphy's. Just ain't there. If you ask me, the instant you put flavor or aroma hops in Dry Irish Stout, it is no longer Dry Irish Stout.

The hops bitterness should meld with the roasted barley bitterness into a massive, whacking great bitterness. You should not be able to discern hops vs. roasted barley bitterness.

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Old 10-05-2008, 12:57 AM   #8
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I certainly can taste the hop in those beers, but just bittering hops no aroma. Guinness also has that wonderful sour taste going on with it.

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Old 10-05-2008, 01:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNQ3X View Post
Dry Irish Stout should, IMO, display no hops flavor or aroma at all. The commercial standards certainly don't. I challenge anyone to find hops flavor and aroma in Guinness, Beamish or Murphy's. Just ain't there. If you ask me, the instant you put flavor or aroma hops in Dry Irish Stout, it is no longer Dry Irish Stout...
FYI: The 2008 BJCP allow for low hop aroma and medium hop flavour in dry stout.
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Old 10-05-2008, 12:22 PM   #10
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With all due respect to you, Brad, and any BJCP judges lurking about, this is just another case where the BJCP talk through their hats!

I mean, seriously - this is not the only category in which they list benchmark examples which contradict their written guidelines. I recently got my wrist slapped on HBT when I supposedly mistakenly told a fella he could make a pale Weizenbock. "Not so!" cried the BJCP readers, who then posted the BJCP verbiage which claims that Weizenbock is a sronger version of Dunkelweizen, and is always dark. I cringed, whined a little about speaking from the perspective of actually drinking pale Weizenbock, gee, guys, sorry, and went to read the style guideline for myself. Huh. The commercial versions I remember drinking - that were pale - are listed as some of the benchmarks. That was when I first figured out that BJCP don't always care whether their commercial benchmarks and their definition of the style even closely match.

It's one thing if they list Dry Irish Stouts with hops character beyond simple bitterness. But of all the benchmark beers they list, not one has hops character - except possibly Orkney Dragonhead Stout, which I have never sampled.

I stand behind my statement. No matter what BJCP says, the classic, benchmark examples of stout which come from Ireland do not have hops character. AHA, in the 2003 style sheets, are unequivocal: "Hop aroma and flavor should not be perceived." Thus, the brewer can add flavor and aroma hops all she likes, but she's not defining the style. It's not being creative, or making the beer your own; it's making something that isn't to style.

I have no problem brewing something that's not to style! None! My beef comes when someone brews something that's not to style and insists on using the style name. That only confuses the drinker. So brew your stout with flavor and aroma hops, and call it "Stout" all you like. Just don't call it "Dry Irish Stout" and fer dang sure don't call it a "Guinness Clone". Cause it ain't.

So there!

Bob

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