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Old 02-06-2010, 05:43 PM   #1
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Default Grodziskie - Polish smoked wheat beer

I'm starting this thread in response to the beer referenced in this video made by Polish brewers in response to our video.

In the video, someone mentions a beer called "Grodziskie". It is a classic Polish beer that has gone by the wayside that a lot of local homebrewers are bringing back (sound familiar )

Kopyr, the member who posted the video gave us some insight on this beer, and a basic recipe:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kopyr View Post
Unfortunatelly not.

It is special glass for Grodziskie. Grodziskie was called polish champagne.
Here you have export label in English.

About recipe, the hardest thing is that Grodziskie was made of 100% smoked (oak) wheat malt. And in Europe there is no malting company, which produced this kind of malt. So many of us use wheat malt + smoked barley malt, but some of us smoke wheat malt on their own.
The recipe I used is:
smoked barley malt 1,5kg
wheat malt 1kg
aroma hops pellets 50g (it was Lubelski, similar to Saaz)
yeast like to koelsch, e.g. S-33

Mash:
5 litre water temp. 40C - add malts
30min in 37C
add 2l hot (boiling) water
20min in 50C
add 3l hot water and heat
30min in 70C

Boiling:
90min
30g hops at the bginning
20g hops after 20 minutes.

EDIT:And the most important it was bottle conditioned.
Some US translations:

smoked barley malt - 3.3lb
wheat malt 1kg - 2.2lb
aroma hops pellets 1.75oz - I've never seen Lubelski for sale here, so lets just say Saaz
yeast like to koelsch, e.g. S-33

Mash:
1.3 gallons water temp. 40C - add malts
30min in 98F

add .5 gallon hot (boiling) water
20min in 122F

add .75 gallons hot water and heat
30min in 158F

A few questions (if Kopyr hopefully joins us here)

1- What size batch? This doesn't look like a typical 5 gallon (~18liter) batch

2- What are the original and final gravities? If you don't typically use specific gravity, we can translate from Plato or Balling

3 - you say Kolsch yeast. What temperature do you ferment at? Do you semi lager this beer like you would a Kolsch?

4 - why the stepped mash? Looks like you have an acid rest, a protein rest and the saccharification rest. Could you get away with a single infusion mash? I'm not sure what malts are available to you in Poland, but most malts here in the US are highly modified and don't really need protein rests.

Hopefully we can get specifics so some of us can give this beer a shot!
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Old 02-06-2010, 05:52 PM   #2
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I found this - http://www.blindbatbrewery.com/Brewh...3cd70a7-43.php

Someone on this side of the pond is already trying it.

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Old 02-06-2010, 05:55 PM   #3
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I'm looking forward to see how this all pans out. Thread prosted.

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Old 02-06-2010, 06:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesnsw View Post
I found this - http://www.blindbatbrewery.com/Brewh...3cd70a7-43.php

Someone on this side of the pond is already trying it.
I already contacted Paul at Blind Bat. He made a batch and wasn't happy with the smoke and intends on getting back to it later in the year (check his web site and you can see he is expanding his brewery from a SABCO 10gal. to a 3bbl system).

His smoked wit was inspired by the Polish Grodziskie but isn't meant to be a clone (it uses mesquite rather than oak).

BTW, very nice guy. Contact him through his web site.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:49 PM   #5
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I must know more about this. Sounds like such a good brew, and not something that will be found in any stores at all.

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Old 02-06-2010, 11:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edcculus View Post
A few questions (if Kopyr hopefully joins us here)

1- What size batch? This doesn't look like a typical 5 gallon (~18liter) batch

2- What are the original and final gravities? If you don't typically use specific gravity, we can translate from Plato or Balling
About 20 liters, so quite familiar to 5 gallons. It has 8 blg, and finish about 2blg, it has only ~2-3% ABV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edcculus View Post
3 - you say Kolsch yeast. What temperature do you ferment at? Do you semi lager this beer like you would a Kolsch?
In Grodzisk, they had their own strain. Probably this strain is in laboratory in one of polish university. The reason why we use koelsch yeast is, that you can't use typycial weizen yeast, because cloves and banana flavour are not present in Grodziskie. So you have to used topfermenting yeast, but quite neutral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edcculus View Post
4 - why the stepped mash? Looks like you have an acid rest, a protein rest and the saccharification rest. Could you get away with a single infusion mash? I'm not sure what malts are available to you in Poland, but most malts here in the US are highly modified and don't really need protein rests.
You're right. Probably there is not necessery to make all the rests, but that mashing procedure based on brewing instrucion from brewery in Grodzisk.

There is one thing, that I've forgotten. Grodziskie was clarified with finnings.
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:24 AM   #7
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Ah, low gravity that makes sense now.

So despite being a wheat based beer, it is clear? A protein rest might help in this case, along with gelatin.


Thanks so much Kopyr! This is all very exciting.

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Old 02-07-2010, 08:07 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edcculus View Post
Ah, low gravity that makes sense now.

So despite being a wheat based beer, it is clear? A protein rest might help in this case, along with gelatin.


Thanks so much Kopyr! This is all very exciting.
Yes it should be clear, no cold haze. Although this is bottle conditioned beer, you should pour it carefully without yeast sediment.
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:50 PM   #9
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Randy Mosher has a recipe in his book "Radical Brewing" for a Gratzer (german name for Grodziskie).
He has two versions for this beer, one "Real Version" and one "Cheaters Version". Here is the former:

1.057 OG
5-5.7% ABV
44 IBU
Yeast: German Ale (Kolsch)

9.0 lb smoked malted wheat (you can smoke it yourself on a grill, with oak)
0.75 lb smoked malted wheat, toasted
1.0 lb rice hulls

Mash: 122*F, 148*F, mash out 175*F.

1.0 oz. Saaz 60 min
2.0 oz. Saaz 20 min
3.0 oz. Saaz 5 min

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Old 02-07-2010, 08:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby_Brew View Post
Randy Mosher has a recipe in his book "Radical Brewing" for a Gratzer (german name for Grodziskie).
He has two versions for this beer, one "Real Version" and one "Cheaters Version". Here is the former:

1.057 OG
5-5.7% ABV
44 IBU
Yeast: German Ale (Kolsch)

9.0 lb smoked malted wheat (you can smoke it yourself on a grill, with oak)
0.75 lb smoked malted wheat, toasted
1.0 lb rice hulls

Mash: 122*F, 148*F, mash out 175*F.

1.0 oz. Saaz 60 min
2.0 oz. Saaz 20 min
3.0 oz. Saaz 5 min
Wow, thanks for that. I think I will use the original Polish name. I hate how the Germans overran so many countries, pilfered the breweries, and changed the names.
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