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Old 10-28-2008, 01:07 PM   #1
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Default Help with torriefied wheat? Formerly - Goose Island 312 Clone Discussion

My brother-in-law Paul, a good Bavarian descended brewing assistant:



wants to brew a light American wheat for his in-laws (my outlaws) family Christmas. We decided they would like something like Goose Island 312. I spoke recently with Goose Island's Wisconsin Rep, and he was going to get back to me about some specifics, but we are brewing on Sunday and can no longer wait...

Here is what I have so far...

1) ABV 4.2%
2) SRM 4
3) IBU 15
4) They use a healthy portion of torrified wheat but I don't know exact ratios
5) The hops are American Cascade

They use a house yeast and I don't have time to drive to Chicago, so I picked up Wyeast 1056 (Am ale) and 2565 (Koelsch). I ferment 5g with each (I do 10g batches). Each yeast will be prepared in a 2 qt. starter.

I was thinking:

25/25/50 torrified/wheat malt/2-row
do a three step mash schedule 99/122/145
60 minute boil
1 thirty minute hop addition to get me to 12 IBU
1 5 minute hop addition for 3 IBU

My questions are:
1) What do you think about my portion of torrified/wheat malt?
2) What do you think about my mash schedule?
3) What do you think about my hop schedule?
4) Any other suggestions you can think of?

Thanks

EDIT: Here is the current recipe from this thread. I will update as the discussion continues and more batches are brewed:

312 v3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

General
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Category: Light Hybrid Beer
Subcategory: American Wheat or Rye Beer
Recipe Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 10 gal.
Volume Boiled: 11 gal.
Mash Efficiency: 78 %
Total Grain/Extract: 15.00 lbs.
Total Hops: 2.8 oz.
Calories (12 fl. oz.): 160.8
Cost to Brew: $38.63 (USD)
Cost per Bottle (12 fl. oz.): $0.36 (USD)

Ingredients
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5.0 lbs. German 2-row Pils
4.2 lbs. Belgian Wheat Malt
2 lbs. Belgian Munich
0.3 lbs. Acidulated Malt
3.5 lbs. Torrified Wheat

2 oz. Cascade (Pellets, 5.50 %AA) boiled 33 minutes.
0.75 oz. Cascade (Pellets, 5.50 %AA) boiled 1 minutes.
Yeast: WYeast 1056 American Ale

Vital Statistics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Gravity: 1.041
Terminal Gravity: 1.009
Color: 3.62 SRM
Bitterness: 15.0 IBU
Alcohol (%volume): 4.2 %


Last edited by Boerderij_Kabouter; 12-11-2008 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:37 PM   #2
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your from wisconsin..why not do Spotted Cow

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Old 10-28-2008, 01:41 PM   #3
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Reading the website doesn't make it sound like they use wheat malt at all. I like the hop schedule, but it's a light citrus aroma, so something around .5 oz or less maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose Island
Like the digits suggest, it's a beer that's densely populated with flavor and loaded with character. We don't filter it, so none of its life and soul is stripped away.

The first thing you notice is the hazy, cloudy appearance. That's how you know it's unfiltered. What hits you next is the spicy aroma of Cascade hops, followed by the crispy, fruity ale flavor delivered in a smooth, creamy body, the result of blending barley malt with torrified wheat. It's not like any other Goose Island Beer, but no less than you'd expect.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmb View Post
Reading the website doesn't make it sound like they use wheat malt at all. I like the hop schedule, but it's a light citrus aroma, so something around .5 oz or less maybe?
I know, I can't tell if they use all torrified... can you even do that? 50% torrified? I've never pushed that far.

I agree, small flavor/aroma hop addition, good call. I really hope this turns out. Not my kind of winter beer, but next summer this could be great.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerderij Kabouter View Post
I know, I can't tell if they use all torrified... can you even do that? 50% torrified? I've never pushed that far.
BeerSmith has a Max in Batch property of 40% for Torrified Wheat so that's all I know. I've never used torrified wheat, my american wheat is 50/50 2row/wheat malt.

I've read that torrified can be an one/one replacement for wheat malt, but from nowhere I'd put real stock in it.

Anyone know the straight dope on this? Bob?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:39 PM   #6
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Here's my first round thought:

1) 5lb 30% 2-row
2) 5lb 30% wheat malt
3) 5lb 30% torrified wheat
4) 1.75lb 10% Munich (for a little color)
(OG: 1.042, FG: 1.009, 4.3 ABV, 3.92 SRM)

a) 11.0 AAU Cascade at 30 minutes
b) 4.125 AAU Cascade at 1 minute
(15.2 IBU)

What do you think of that? Someone has to have some experience with this.....

Thanks

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Old 10-29-2008, 01:25 PM   #7
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Is that too much wheat for an Am. wheat? Normally they are 50/50 2-row/wheat so I am a bit concerned this will not be what I am looking for.

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Old 10-29-2008, 02:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boerderij Kabouter View Post
Is that too much wheat for an Am. wheat? Normally they are 50/50 2-row/wheat so I am a bit concerned this will not be what I am looking for.
Maybe 70/30 2row/torrified?

I found a six pack of 312 and a 6er of Bell's Oberon on the way home from work yesterday. Comparing the two against style 6D, American Wheat or Rye, in which Oberon is, according to the BJCP style guide, the best example of the style and 312 doesn't even show up was an eye opener. Against the Oberon, 312 came across as a cloudy blond ale. Little of what I could call a "wheat" flavor when compared to the Oberon.

Goose Island 312 is one of my wife's favorite beers and we've had a few cases of it pass through the bar, but it was surprising when drinking it with a "real" American Wheat per BJCP style.

Totally changed what I thought the beer might be made up of. It might even be more 80/20.
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:20 PM   #9
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I would think that they would use a different yeast than those. I would think that they would ferment in the upper 60's with 3056. I would even try WB06 for this recipe. I've heard that it has wheat yeast flavors that are muted.

As for the grain bill, don't forget the rice hulls with that much wheat.

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Old 10-29-2008, 02:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimer View Post
I would think that they would use a different yeast than those. I would think that they would ferment in the upper 60's with 3056. I would even try WB06 for this recipe. I've heard that it has wheat yeast flavors that are muted.

As for the grain bill, don't forget the rice hulls with that much wheat.
Big thing with American Wheat is that it doesn't have the traditional "weizen" flavors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJCP 6D Style
... Esters can be moderate to none, but should not take on a German Weizen character (banana). No clove phenols, although a light spiciness from wheat or rye is acceptable ...
If picking a something other than cal ale, Wyeast has 1010 American Wheat but even they say 1010 can be used with styles like Cream Ale, Düsseldorf Altbier, Kölsch, and Northern German Altbier. All styles that have very minimal to no yeast ester notes.
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