Franziskaner Recipe?

Anybody got a good Franziskaner recipe that's been tried? Looking for a new recipe after my last one was a bust. Looking for a good tested recipe, not speculation that ends up tasting like flavored water.... sorry just a little bitter. Found some recipes on here, but none of them posted their results.

Hefeweizen is a pretty closely defined style in germany. Pretty much the only thing you can change is the balance between wheat and pils malt, and even that not much. Just use a good, tested hefeweizen recipe like this one.

What did you try before?

Wy3068 and 60:40 wheat and pilsner gets pretty close. Somewhere near 1.048 OG and any noble-like hops to 10-12 ibu.

Well there's still the differences in the hops, my recipe call for just hall, most I seen call for spat and perle as well. But that recipe seems simple enough, my last recipe had Cara-pils and Aromatic malts. Even with these speciality malts, my beer didn't taste like much. Have you tried this recipe?

I've used Wyeast 3638, any benefits with 3068?

Hops in hefeweizen are just bittering traditionally, as long as it's some noble hop it makes little difference.

With those hops, that yeast, and even some specialty malts added (they aren't traditional, but should add flavor if anything), I'd be looking at something other than recipe formulation. You sure it didn't get infected? I had a wit beer get infected once and it stripped the flavor and mouthfeel right out of it. Fermentation temps are also very important to getting the right profile with these strains.

Have you used that recipe, Sky? I sure hope it wasn't infected, it had taste just very diminished. I'm pretty sure what happened was a combination of underhopping it, poor efficiency, and poor recipe led to no taste and a low FG...

This is my last one made in the spring.
Hopville . "Heferator" Weizen/Weissbier Recipe
This is the one I usually brew.
Hopville . "Hefeweizen" Weizen/Weissbier Recipe
3068 is the most like Franziskaner that I've used.

OneManBrewery said:

I've used Wyeast 3638, any benefits with 3068?

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Many people prefer the 3068, there are those who believe strongly in one or the other. I personally have always gotten more "hefe flavor" from the 3068 but honestly haven't used 3638 nearly as much.

Give 3068 a shot - or do a double batch ferment half with each :rockin:

I believe hefes are better made using decoction method, utilizing several differnet steps- 98*, 122*, 147*, 156-8*, then mash out. This develops nice malt flavor (which can come close in subbing munich, or caramunich or even a little aromatic). 50-60% wheat & 40-50% Pils seems to be standard. Franziskaner has a bit of a tang to it. My last hefe i threw about 2 oz acid malt in and it came through, was damn good. I think this is important if ur looking for Franziskaner clone. 10-15 IBUs with noble hops, preferably hallertauer and perle. I've also seen few oz. carapils in some recipes. i use 3068 mostly and prefer it over 3638, although either is fine.

OneManBrewery said:

Well there's still the differences in the hops, my recipe call for just hall, most I seen call for spat and perle as well. But that recipe seems simple enough, my last recipe had Cara-pils and Aromatic malts. Even with these speciality malts, my beer didn't taste like much. Have you tried this recipe?

I've used Wyeast 3638, any benefits with 3068?

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Weihenstephan, uses Perle for all of their bittering additions. You want a good hefe, do a decoction mash.

bh10 said:

You want a good hefe, do a decoction mash.

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I agree. The decoction seems to cook away the pasty/raw/floury thing that wheat beers can have and leaves a nice wafery/cake-cone taste.

48 pages of German hefeweizen discussion:
The Northern Brewer Homebrew Forum • View topic - The Great Bavarian Weissbier Project of 2007/2008

Decoction... Good to know. I went with the recipe sky forger gave me... I liked it's simplicity. Do you usually the triple decoction?

A good hefeweizen is simple. Pretty much all Belgian and German commercial breweries use very simple recipes, generally just one or two ingredients in the grist; I try to avoid the specialty grain soup that many clone brews have.

I use an enhanced double decoction or just a single decoction. Triple is extra work with (I believe) no added benefit.

A low FG could well contribute to a hefe having little taste or body. I don't know if you had an infection, but it happened to me once that I had a witbier (not a hefe but close enough to compare) that was great after primary, then a wild yeast took over and the FG dropped and took all the flavor and body with it. But low mash temp or low efficiency could also drop the FG. In this case, trying a decoction may help in more ways than one; they can increase efficiency and prevent low FG.

This is from Weyermann's site

Grain Bill:
3% Weyermann® Acidulated Malt
10% Weyermann® Carahell®
27% Weyermann® Pilsner Malt
60% Weyermann® Pale Wheat Malt

Mash:
Mash in with brewing liquor at 35°C (95°F)
Raise mash temperature to 45°C (113°F)
Rest mash for 10 minutes
Raise mash temperature to 52°C (126°F)
Rest mash for 10 minutes
Raise mash temperature to 62°C (144°F)
Rest mash for 30 minutes
Raise mash temperature to 72°C (162 °F)
Rest mash for 30 minutes
Iodine test normal
Raise mash temperature to 78°C (172°F) for mash-out

Hefe:
W 68 at 18°C (64°F)
Saflager 34/70 at bottling primed to ~4 volumes with Munich LME. One week at 68F.

I don't think you can decoct that fast, probably just the 30 minute rests. I have triple decocted most of my weis biers. I don't think it shows as much as an improvement as with it does with pilsners. The yeast character is so dominant that the subtleties of the mash don't stand out. Some think it effects the yeast character but I've not been able to taste it (or at least they believe the acid rest does.)

I use phosphoric acid and not acid malt. It really dosen't matter it does the same thing.

Malticolus makes an excellent point, you need either acidulated malt or some type of acid to the mash. Doing just Pils malt and wheat will leave your mash pH extremely high, without a lot of brewing salts, which isnt wanted. You'll want softer water.

My Bavarian Hefe is pretty simple, two grains & 1 hop plus 3068. It's as German as it gets.

So I guess there's two different sides here. So is the acidic malt really needed? My water is a good median. Edwort that looks declicious.

Got my recipe ordered from Brew Masters Warehouse... got to love the Brew Builder.

OneManBrewery said:

So I guess there's two different sides here. So is the acidic malt really needed?

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I don't use it and my Hefe turns out great. It's highly approved by native Bavarians.

Why do you boil the hallau for 45 minutes instead of the full 60?

OneManBrewery said:

Why do you boil the hallau for 45 minutes instead of the full 60?

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Bavarian Hefe's are very lightly hopped.

Acid malt is not necessary in a hefe. In fact probably most don't call for it. But in a Franziskaner clone, I have seen it used (and have used it myself with success). There really isn't any widely agreed upon clone of Franziskaner. Would love for one to be done by CYBI guys.

The acid malt depends on the water profile. It's pH adjustment in compliance with the beer purity law. I belive it finishes with a low pH--probably around 3.8. I should test it next time I buy one.

I think the Weyermann recipie with carahell is going to be close. I'll try it next spring.

recently had a franziskaner hefe so I was led to this thread. I've made a few hefe's including the tasty recipe by bee cave brewery and sampled as many as I can get my hands on and I have NEVER had a hefe that tasted like the franziskaner. I got massive ammounts of bubble gum and plum-like flavors which is something i've never had personally. Blew my mind. I don't think there is any way that they are using the 3068 strain to get that flavor. I have never tried the 3638, is there really that big of a difference from the 3068 as far as flavor contribution? Doing a 10 gallon batch of hefe tomorow as my first decoction. Wish me luck

razorbuck,

how did your batch turn out? I am currently harvesting the Franziskaner yeast to add to a weisen-bock. I love the flavor of Franzy so I'm attempting to harvest the yeast from the bottle. I've not had any of the Whitelabs or Yyeast bring the same flavors of Franzy.

Ilike to know that myself. It's be great to duplicate franziskaner.