Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Recipes/Ingredients > First English Bitter - No Crystal?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-04-2014, 03:38 PM   #1
Omahawk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 249
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default First English Bitter - No Crystal?

I've been brewing for 5 years and never done an English Pale Ale. I get brewing ideas in my head (which often later turn out to wrong, and I change my opinion), and I'm currently thinking I will prefer a Special Bitter / ESB without any crystal malts. To compensate, I'm thinking a couple of different layers of light roasted malts. Here's what I've got so far:

English Beer Approximately
Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.87 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00

Ingredients
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 88.89 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 8.89 %
0.25 lb Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 2.22 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 30.3 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs British Ale (Wyeast Labs #1098) Yeast-Ale

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Bitterness: 30.3 IBU
Est Color: 7.3 SRM

EDIT: Mash at 153F. If I use 1968, I'd probably mash at a little lower temp.

I think my final recipe will have a few more IBUs (35 or so) depending on the alphas on the EKGs that my LHBS has. Thoughts from those of you that have brewed a few of these? Would a little (%5) medium crystal make a difference?

Also, any experiences with 1098 compared to 1968?

__________________

In Heaven there is no beer
That's why we drink it here
And when we're all gone from here
Our friends will be drinking all the beer.

Omahawk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 04:49 PM   #2
DogStar
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wiltshire, UK
Posts: 66
Liked 6 Times on 3 Posts

Default

I simply use pale malt and medium crystal in an English bitter. Providing you use a good base malt such as Maris Otter or Golden Promise you'll get all the flavour you need.

I've never used 1098 but I have used wlp007 which I understand is the same strain (whitbread dry). It starts quickly, attenuates well and clears easily leaving you with a good dry clear beer.

If you want the full, well rounded authentic taste try adding some fuggles at 10 minutes. Don't make it too bitter of you'll loose the balance. 30 IBU is bitter enough. Don't drink it too cold. 11 - 13C is about right.

However, I think you'll get a good beer with your recipe. I have used biscuit and didn't notice it in the beer. I've no experience of special roast.

__________________

When sun beats down and I lie on the bench I can always hear them talk
Me, I'm just a lawnmower, you can tell me by the way I walk

DogStar is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 05:27 PM   #3
BigEd
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,386
Liked 123 Times on 108 Posts
Likes Given: 20

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omahawk View Post
I've been brewing for 5 years and never done an English Pale Ale. I get brewing ideas in my head (which often later turn out to wrong, and I change my opinion), and I'm currently thinking I will prefer a Special Bitter / ESB without any crystal malts. To compensate, I'm thinking a couple of different layers of light roasted malts.
What is it your are trying to compensate for? Crystal malt is a very common although not mandatory ingredient in a bitter. If you choose not to use any there's nothing wrong with that although I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve with the additions of biscuit and special roast.

Maybe the use of a little biscuit will provide extra aroma, but I'd cut back to 1/4-1/2 lb. Like DogStar says, a good UK pale malt really doesn't need any help in the flavor department. Special roast is similar in color to medium crystal but is not the same flavor. If you like it then use it but to me it has an odd, slightly burnt flavor.

Personally, I'd stick with tradition here and use a modest quantity of UK medium crystal (5-8%). If you want a beer lighter in color use something in the 10-25L range and if you want a darker brew mix the medium crystal 50/50 with a 75/90L and add an ounce of chocolate malt to deepen the tone. There's a reason why so many bitter recipes use a simple formula of 95% pale and 5% crystal or something close. It works.

Bumping up the IBUs to the mid 30s for a OG 1.052 beer is fine. I shoot for a .75:1 ratio IBU:OG in a bitter. Bear in mind this is for beers with a crystal malt addition for a touch of balancing sweetness. If you leave the recipe as is I'd stick with the lower IBU number.

Can't help you on the yeast choice, not a fan of either one. London Ale (WY1028/WLP-013) is my choice for UK ales.
__________________
BigEd is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 05:27 PM   #4
jeffjm
Custom Yeast Home Builder
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jeffjm's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 431
Liked 77 Times on 52 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

I brew a lot of English pale ales and always use a small amount (5-8%) of an English dark crystal malt. This is one of the few beers where I'll use that much crystal.

A pound of biscuit malt might be a bit much. Although I don't use it personally, I hear it's close to Victory malt, which I use quite a bit, and can get overpoweringly bready in large amounts. I'd go with more like eight ounces in five gallons.

__________________

I set out running but I take my time.

jeffjm is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 05:46 PM   #5
Qhrumphf
Stay Rude, Stay SHARP
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Qhrumphf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,994
Liked 1654 Times on 1174 Posts
Likes Given: 671

Default

You're in the same general realm that I usually use. My Bitters often use about a half pound of Biscuit and about a half pound of Special Roast. But I also use about 8% crystal.

The EKG I've been getting lately have been quite high AA. 7.2% is what I've got in the freezer now. So depending on who you get em from, they may well be higher than what you've got listed.

As far as yeast, I absolutely love Wyeast 1469, and I use it in absolutely every English beer that I brew. It makes a mean Bitter.

__________________

Up Next: Robust Porter, Bluebird Bitter Clone v2.0, Kitchen Sink Brown Porter
Primary: English Cider, Belgian IPA, Dark Mild
Souring: Lamebic, Flanders Red, Brett. C. Old Ale, Sour Stout, Brett C. Wild Bitter, Wild Cider
Polypins: (Empty for now)
Bottled: Doppelsticke Altbier, Berliner Weisse, Spiced Winter Warmer, Malt Liquor
In the "cellar": Brett B. Tripel, Quadrupel, Tripel, Brett C. Oaked English Barleywine, Lamebic

Qhrumphf is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 05:49 PM   #6
Qhrumphf
Stay Rude, Stay SHARP
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Qhrumphf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,994
Liked 1654 Times on 1174 Posts
Likes Given: 671

Default

Also, I've used both but never side by side, but 1098/007 is supposed to be roughly the same character as 1968/002, just much drier and more highly attenuated.

__________________

Up Next: Robust Porter, Bluebird Bitter Clone v2.0, Kitchen Sink Brown Porter
Primary: English Cider, Belgian IPA, Dark Mild
Souring: Lamebic, Flanders Red, Brett. C. Old Ale, Sour Stout, Brett C. Wild Bitter, Wild Cider
Polypins: (Empty for now)
Bottled: Doppelsticke Altbier, Berliner Weisse, Spiced Winter Warmer, Malt Liquor
In the "cellar": Brett B. Tripel, Quadrupel, Tripel, Brett C. Oaked English Barleywine, Lamebic

Qhrumphf is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 09:50 PM   #7
Omahawk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 249
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffjm View Post
A pound of biscuit malt might be a bit much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DogStar View Post
I simply use pale malt and medium crystal in an English bitter. Providing you use a good base malt such as Maris Otter or Golden Promise you'll get all the flavour you need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qhrumphf View Post
You're in the same general realm that I usually use. My Bitters often use about a half pound of Biscuit and about a half pound of Special Roast. But I also use about 8% crystal.
I'm so used to constructing American Ales with US 2-row, that I tend to add lots of Munich and Victory to add some complexity. I'll cut the Biscuit back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qhrumphf View Post
As far as yeast, I absolutely love Wyeast 1469, and I use it in absolutely every English beer that I brew. It makes a mean Bitter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
Can't help you on the yeast choice, not a fan of either one. London Ale (WY1028/WLP-013) is my choice for UK ales.
I'll do some more research on the range of yeast options. It seems like there's two different attenuation ranges - upper 60s or lower 70s.

Quesiton: What temperature is everyone mashing at for these two different attenuation ranges?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogStar View Post
If you want the full, well rounded authentic taste try adding some fuggles at 10 minutes.
Would you use the 10 minute fuggles addition in place of the flameout EKG addition?

In general, I'm hearing folks say they use a medium or dark English Crystal. Most of the recipes I've seen use it as well. Perhaps that's telling me something. Here's my adjusted malt bill:

10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 88.89 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 4.44 %
0.50 lb English Medium Crystal (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.44 %
0.25 lb Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 2.22 %

Thanks for the input.
__________________

In Heaven there is no beer
That's why we drink it here
And when we're all gone from here
Our friends will be drinking all the beer.

Omahawk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 10:22 PM   #8
Qhrumphf
Stay Rude, Stay SHARP
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Qhrumphf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 6,994
Liked 1654 Times on 1174 Posts
Likes Given: 671

Default

As far as mash temp, it depends on the beer. I tend to target the 1.010-1.011 range for FG for low strength Bitters and 1.012 to 1.014 for strong Bitters. 1469 is also a fairly low attenuator. For my ESBs, I do maybe 152-153. For an Ordinary Bitter (my house one is about 1.033 to about 1.011) I go up to 157-158. My house ESB is 1.053-1.013. I ferment em at about 68.

Also, there's some wide variation amongst English crystals and maltsters, just like there are with everything else.

My preferences are Crisp "Light" Crystal (45L), Crisp "Dark" Crystal (77L), and Simpsons "Extra Dark" crystal (160L).

I think the adjusted grainbill looks good.

__________________

Up Next: Robust Porter, Bluebird Bitter Clone v2.0, Kitchen Sink Brown Porter
Primary: English Cider, Belgian IPA, Dark Mild
Souring: Lamebic, Flanders Red, Brett. C. Old Ale, Sour Stout, Brett C. Wild Bitter, Wild Cider
Polypins: (Empty for now)
Bottled: Doppelsticke Altbier, Berliner Weisse, Spiced Winter Warmer, Malt Liquor
In the "cellar": Brett B. Tripel, Quadrupel, Tripel, Brett C. Oaked English Barleywine, Lamebic

Qhrumphf is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-05-2014, 11:07 PM   #9
MindenMan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Carson City, Nv
Posts: 1,635
Liked 234 Times on 176 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

I once made a brew with Canadian Pale Ale malt and Special Roast 50, and the judges were quite sure they were drinking Maris Otter. I'm just saying...

__________________

Aging from last year: Hard Cider, Triple Chocolate Stout, American Amber II
First fermenter: American Mild
Second fermenter: Empty
Long term aging: Strong Scottish Ale, American Stout
3 new hard ciders, first is a Apple Raspberry, second will be a Apple Grape, and third Apple Cranberry. These will all become Jacked Ciders

MindenMan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-06-2014, 12:17 AM   #10
Omahawk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 249
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qhrumphf View Post
As far as mash temp, it depends on the beer. I tend to target the 1.010-1.011 range for FG for low strength Bitters and 1.012 to 1.014 for strong Bitters. 1469 is also a fairly low attenuator. For my ESBs, I do maybe 152-153. For an Ordinary Bitter (my house one is about 1.033 to about 1.011) I go up to 157-158. My house ESB is 1.053-1.013. I ferment em at about 68.
Thanks for the input on FG, yeast and mash temp. I'm targeting around a 1.050 SG and 1.014 FG. Still don't know what yeast yet. I'll adjust mash temp accordingly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qhrumphf View Post
My preferences are Crisp "Light" Crystal (45L), Crisp "Dark" Crystal (77L), and Simpsons "Extra Dark" crystal (160L).
Holy cow - I've never seen the 160 L crystal. Must taste like dark toffee or scorched raisons. Sounds perfect for an Old Ale or Barleywine. I'll have to try it sometime.
__________________

In Heaven there is no beer
That's why we drink it here
And when we're all gone from here
Our friends will be drinking all the beer.

Omahawk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a recipe to a not so bitter English bitter sathrovarr Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 8 06-05-2012 05:53 AM
Is there a common form of crystal malt similar to English Medium Crystal? msa8967 Recipes/Ingredients 3 12-06-2011 02:35 PM
English IPA without crystal? commonlaw Recipes/Ingredients 0 02-14-2010 10:48 PM
English Crystal 75L daveooph131 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 11-11-2009 07:07 AM
Substituting Liberty for Crystal, then Mt Hood for Crystal in Brutal Bitter terrazza Recipes/Ingredients 2 07-02-2009 05:49 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS