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Old 12-21-2007, 01:42 PM   #1
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Default Feedback Needed for Winter Lager Recipe

I've been wanting to brew another smoked beer for awhile, and I really like peated malt as an adjunct rather than rauchmalt as a partial base---at least for this style. My lagerator is currently open, so one of the beers I wanted to brew during next week's "marathon" is this Smoked Winter Lager. Its base is Munich 10L---there's some Sucanat in there for a caramel note and some clean alcohol, then 6oz each of peated, chocolate and carapils.

I'll be double-decocting to accentuate the Munich's malt profile, then dumping some spices in after flameout (paradise seeds are added 5 mins prior).

Any feedback, especially on the spice additions, is appreciated!

Code:
Dark Paradise Smoked Winter Lager

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

22-B  Smoked Flavored/Wood Aged, Other Smoked Beer

Min OG:  1.020   Max OG:  1.120
Min IBU:    12   Max IBU:    70
Min Clr:     2   Max Clr:    70  Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal):         5.50    Wort Size (Gal):    5.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       14.13
Anticipated OG:          1.068    Plato:             16.62
Anticipated SRM:          21.1
Anticipated IBU:          46.8
Brewhouse Efficiency:       78 %
Wort Boil Time:             60    Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate:      15.00    Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size:    6.47    Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity:      1.058    SG          14.25  Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used:   Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30


Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 88.5    12.50 lbs. Munich Malt(light)            America        1.033     10
  3.5     0.50 lbs. Sucanat                       Generic        1.046      1
  2.7     0.38 lbs. Scottish Peated Malt          Scotland       1.038      5
  2.7     0.38 lbs. CaraPilsner                   France         1.035     10
  2.7     0.38 lbs. Chocolate Malt                America        1.029    350

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1.00 oz.    Galena                            Whole   13.00  40.0  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Saazer                            Whole    3.30   6.1  20 min.
  0.75 oz.    Saazer                            Whole    3.30   0.6  2 min.


Extras

  Amount      Name                           Type      Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
  2.00 Tsp    Irish Moss                     Fining    15 Min.(boil) 
  0.75 Tsp    Cinnamon                       Spice      0 Min.(boil) 
  0.13 Tsp    Cloves (Ground)                Spice      0 Min.(boil) 
  1.50 Tsp    Allspice (Ground)              Spice      0 Min.(boil) 
  1.00 Oz     Grains of Paradise             Spice      5 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

DCL Yeast S-23 SafLager W. Euro Lager


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: German Mash Double Decoction

Total Grain Lbs:   13.63
Total Water Qts:   16.49 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    4.12 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.00
Grain Temp:        70.00 F


                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein Rest           5     90    122     122   Infuse   130       16.49   1.21
Low Mash              70     65    151     151   Decoc    212        7.09   0.65 (Decoc Thickness)
High Mash             35     45    159     159   Decoc    212        2.70   1.50 (Decoc Thickness)
Sparge                 5     10    168     168   Infuse   180       14.41   2.27


Total Water Qts:           30.90 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:            7.73 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:      8.82 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

Step Time for Decoction Steps represent how far back in time the Decoction was pulled.
Infusion amounts for Decoction Steps represent the amount pulled for the Decoction.
Infusion ratios for Decoction Steps represent the Decoction Thickness.


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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:08 PM   #2
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Looks like a very interesting recipe. I've never used anything other than 2 row as a base, so I'd be very interested in hearing how this one turns out.

The grainbill looks good, as does the hop schedule. The only thing that I see that I'd be concerned about is the quantity of cinnamom and allspice. Both are very flavorful and in the quantities you have listed this may become liquid carbonated potpurri.

Just my $.02.



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Old 12-21-2007, 02:11 PM   #3
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your $.02 is exactly what I need.

I haven't found allspice to be that powerful in the past, but I might just tone down the cinnamon per your suggestion.

edit: actually, I looked back and I only have 3/4 tsp in there, which is hardly anything in a 5 gal batch---especially one where the spice is competing with peated malt. I've used over a tablespoon of the stuff before, and it was still not over the top.

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MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
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.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)

Last edited by Evan!; 12-21-2007 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:24 PM   #4
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A buddy brewed up a Holiday Ale that he brought over to our Christmas Party last weekend. He used 3/4 tsp Cinnamon along with some other spices (nutmeg, allspice, orange peel, corriander) but I'm not sure about the quantities. The only one he could remember after 6 holiday ales was the Cinnamon.

At any rate, it could very well have been the combination of all of the above spices, but all I tasted was cinnamon potpurri. I couldn't finish one. I'm not much of a fan of holiday brews, but if the spice is mild enough I can certainly enjoy them.

As I type this I realize that me giving advice about the spices in holiday beers is like someone who loves ESB's and only drinks malty beers giving me advice on a hop schedule for an IIPA, so I'll shut up now.

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Old 12-21-2007, 02:36 PM   #5
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nah, I value your opinion. I might take it down to 1/2 tsp, and drop the allspice down to 1 tsp. I might also omit the cloves.

__________________
MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:39 PM   #6
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I'm having a real hard time imagining the peat malt and the spices working well together. Six ounces is a LOT of peat, the most I ever see in recipes is usually about half that (I think my smoked porter was four ounces, and that was plenty). Six ounces is going to be pretty dominant, and it's hard for me to imagine that being complementary to the cinammon, etc.

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Old 12-21-2007, 03:28 PM   #7
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You're probably right on the spice, bird. The more I think about it, the more I'm skeptical about the cinnamon in general. I think I'll get rid of it and the cloves. I still think that maybe a tsp of allspice will add a nice savory note and won't clash with the peated malt.

As far as the amount---I used half that in my smoked porter and it was pretty balanced---but faded over time. I just tried a smoked porter from Dude that was freakin' awesome, and it was much smokier. Not to mention that the peated malt I have is pretty old. Yeah, it's foodsaved, but it also came crushed, so I'm guessing it won't have the same potency.

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MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:51 PM   #8
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2oz of peated malt the most you should ever add. 6 oz makes me want to chew on the carpet here at work...........ghheeeee. that would be way to much for any beer.

Remember a good spiced/fruited/(add crazy ingedient here) beer should be a beer first.

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Old 12-21-2007, 03:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan!
You're probably right on the spice, bird. The more I think about it, the more I'm skeptical about the cinnamon in general. I think I'll get rid of it and the cloves. I still think that maybe a tsp of allspice will add a nice savory note and won't clash with the peated malt.

As far as the amount---I used half that in my smoked porter and it was pretty balanced---but faded over time. I just tried a smoked porter from Dude that was freakin' awesome, and it was much smokier. Not to mention that the peated malt I have is pretty old. Yeah, it's foodsaved, but it also came crushed, so I'm guessing it won't have the same potency.
Dude's not using peat malt, though... that's a LOT. If you like Dude's SP, use rauchmalt or smoke your own - you have one of those little water smokers, don't you?
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"no, he just doesn't speak 'stupid'. i, however, am fluent...." - motobrewer
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That'll do, Pigley. That'll do.
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bird
Dude's not using peat malt, though... that's a LOT. If you like Dude's SP, use rauchmalt or smoke your own - you have one of those little water smokers, don't you?
No, he smokes his own, you're right, but there's gotta be a balance where I can get that same level of smoke from peated. You remember my smoked porter, which had 3oz, right? That wasn't that smoky---not nearly as smoky as Dude's. So what if I go with 4oz?

yeah, I do have a smoker, but I'd have no freakin' clue how much to smoke it and how much malt to use, etc.


__________________
MOSS HOLLOW BREWING CO.
Aristocratic Ales, Lascivious Lagers


.planned:
•Scottish 80/- •Sweet Stout •Roggenbier
.primary | bright:
98: Moss Hollow Soured '09 72: Oude Kriek 99: B-Weisse 102: Brett'd BDSA 104: Feat of Strength Helles Bock 105: Merkin Brown
.on tap | kegged:
XX: Moss Hollow Springs Sparkling Water 95: Gott Mit Uns German Pils 91b: Brown Willie's Oaked Abbey Ale 103: Merkin Stout
98: Yorkshire Special 100: Maple Porter 89: Cidre Saison 101: Steffiweizen '09 (#3)
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