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Old 03-19-2008, 02:07 AM   #1
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Default Feedback needed from experts, a RoggenBier recipe

Wanted to run this up the flag pole and get a reaction. Just built my Mash Tun Sunday. Placing an order this Thursday to make my first Roggenbier & first Partial Mash. The below results are using the TastyBrew.com Recipator.

OG-1.056 FG-1.015 ABV 5.3%
Boil Volume 3.5 Gallons Batch Size 5.25 Gallons
IBU-23
SRM-17
Yeast 73-74% Attenuation
Brewhouse effeciency -56% (not sure what to put here as this is my first "real" mash, but I figured my effeciency would be crappy)

Fermentables:
3lb Wheat DME
1lb American Crystal 40
2lb American two-row
2.5lb Rye Malt
2lb Wheat Malt
.33lb Chocolate

Hop Schedule:
1oz Tettnanger - 60 mins.
1oz Styring Goldings - 2 mins

Yeast 3068*Weihenstephan Weizen

NOW FEEL FREE TO PIMP MY ROGGENBIER!!!

What I'm looking for in this bier is to get a real good mixture of wheat and malty character. A Dunkelweizen with some real character, wanting enough bitterness to keep it balanced. The one thing I'm not sure of is my selection of Hops... I'm thinking I'd rather use hallertau.... Really not sure about the late addition hops. Also wondering about the use of Chocolate malt, should I use a Darker Crystal, and maybe include some Special B???

Thank you very much,
Phillip

I'm also curious from the brew software owners what happens if they input these #'s if thier results are similar???

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Old 03-19-2008, 02:33 AM   #2
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I think this will be very dark and opaque. However, with 6 weeks of bulk conditioning, it will be good.
Your ratio on Rye is high, but if you are diluting it will taste just as such.
What's stopping you from AG? Boil volume? Mash tun size? If you can I'd suggest going all out.

I love rye beer, and have never made a bad one. I have tried several times to make the perfect one. I think another 10 years and I'll have it.

Cheers!

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Old 03-19-2008, 02:40 AM   #3
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I'm no roggenbier style expert, but I think the Germans use a lot more rye than that. I think classic roggenbiers are closer to 50-60% of the grist.

Or are you just calling it a roggenbier because you have some rye in it? I'm not calling you out, just mentioning it in case you are expecting a true german style rye brew.

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Old 03-19-2008, 04:01 AM   #4
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According to the German Beer Institute (germanbeerinstitute.com a pretty neat and informative site) the following is what makes a Roggenbier.

"Roggenbier is a medieval ale usually made from a grain bill of about half barley malt and equal portions of wheat and rye malts. Today, a Roggenbier may be either an ale or a lager. Modern renditions of the brew have about 5 to 5.5% alcohol by volume. Rye ales are mildly hopped, which allows the grain flavors to be dominant. Filtration appears to be optional in a rye ale and many, such as the Paulaner are "naturtrüb," meaning naturally turbid."

With that out of the way the same website has this to say about the bier's character in it's modern form.

"Being ancient brews, Roggenbiers can have a faint whiff of earthiness in the nose that is reminiscent of rye bread. The up-front sensation is one of mild fruitiness. There is a slight to extreme yeastiness and breadiness in the middle, and an almost smoky, spicy, faintly sour and very dry finish—clearly the effects of the rye malt. Effervescence ranges from medium to spritzy like a Hefeweizen. The body is substantial, almost reminiscent of a Bockbier. The brew has a pleasant, rich, off-white head when poured."

The above is what I'm looking for! Any idea if my recipe will produce something close to this?

Hey and no offense taken from anyone's retort. As for what bier style guidelines say, I could care less (unless it's for a contest), I like most want to brew what fits my taste buds the best! According to my calculations, based on gravity point extraction, I'm using 47.1% Barley, 37.3% Wheat, and 15.5% Rye. I think I may add .5-1 lb more Rye, I'd like to get it up closer to 20%.

How's the Recipe look?
Furthermore I appologize for not knowing how to be brief!

Thanks guys,
Phillip

Ps As for going AG... that's where I'm headed, but I need to get a couple more brews under my belt for experience, and I need to stock the bier closet before I'm dropping coin on a burner ($35 110 BTU WalMart), Brew pot (40 Qt. $75/Keg if I can lay my hands on one), and wort chiller ($?? DIY project). Besides before I buy all of my stuff to go AG I've got to set up my kegging system.... BECAUSE BOTTELING SUX way worse than having to extract/PM brew!

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Old 03-19-2008, 04:20 AM   #5
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I would worry about the Chocolate overpowering the Rye. A little chocolate malt goes a long way.

How about your PM setup? Your mash bill is nearly 33% rye. You may want to consider some rice hulls to avoid sparging problems (rye has no hull, and turns to glue easily). I've batch sparged a beer with 15% rye successfully using a braided hose type MLT, but doubling that proportion may be a bit much.

Otherwise, sounds tasty!

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Old 03-19-2008, 04:39 AM   #6
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I forgot to put the rice hulls in! I'll be okay so long as I don't forget to order them!!! What do you think I need, 1 or 2 lbs rice hulls?

As for .33 lbs being too much chocolate malt... that's the type of info I need. Should I cut it back to say 2 ounces and maybe include 2 ounces of brown malt or aromatic. Those are the other 2 specialty grains I was thinking of using to add complexity to the beer. That's the type of input I need, thanks jds!

Any thoughts on hop varieties.

Schlante,
Phillip

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Old 03-19-2008, 06:10 PM   #7
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I'm currently listening to Jamil's broadcast on brewing network, Roggenbier episode. According to those guys a Roggenbier has to be 1/2 Rye malt. I'm sure he would know. Basicly no wheat malt, it's judged as a German Weizen category. Can be light or dark.

As for mine I'm not planning to follow the judging guidelines and I do believe traditional Roggenbiers would have been using wheat malts.

Phillip

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