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vinnythering 06-20-2012 07:31 PM

Extra Special Bitter
 
This one is for July 27. Never used Melanoiden Malt before so I am unsure of what this will do. I have read that I may be aiming to use too much, but I will let you all be the judge of that and help me tweak my recipe.

Style: Extra Special Bitter

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.9 SRM
IBU: 39.1 IBUs
OG: 1.053 SG
FG: 1.017 SG
ABV: 4.7 %

70.9% 7.0 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
10.1% 1.0 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
7.6 % 12.0 oz Melanoiden Malt
6.3 % 10.0 oz Victory Malt
5.1 % 8.0 oz Aromatic Malt

Add 13 qt of 169F water - 156F for 60 min
Add 4.5 qt of 209F water - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Challenger 7.5 % ---------- Boil 60 min
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 5 min

Britsh Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F


I don't have any real concerns, just wondering what the Melanoiden will do. Maybe also wondering if I am in style with this grain bill and hop schedule. Also, if this recipe will be any good. Thanks!

bierhaus15 06-20-2012 10:28 PM

Well, there are different schools of thought on these types of things, US v. UK style, but you really have WAY too much character malts here. Crystal is fine at 10%, but with nearly 20% biscuit type malts you might as well be brewing a dopplebock. If this was my recipe, I'd drop the melanoiden and aromatic for sure and probably even the victory. If you are paying extra $$ for a good quality MO malt, why cover up its flavor with a bunch of other biscuit malts? If you want more toasty-biscuit flavors, I would toast 1/2 of MO in the oven for 15 min before using any of those other ones. Though 1/2lb of victory would be ok too.

Other than that, all looks good. Though, I'd probably move the first golding addition to 15min for a bit of hop flavor and mash a bit lower, say 152-154F, since the ringwood yeast is going to attenuate pretty well regardless. Just make sure to pitch a large amount of healthy yeast and oxygenate well if you don't want a lot of diacetyl. Good luck with the brew.

vinnythering 06-21-2012 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bierhaus15 (Post 4188502)
If this was my recipe, I'd drop the melanoiden and aromatic for sure and probably even the victory.

When you say drop, do you mean completely omit them from the recipe or just lower the amount? Either way is okay with me I am just unsure of what you mean.

bierhaus15 06-21-2012 12:46 PM

Omit them from the recipe entirely.

vinnythering 06-21-2012 06:02 PM

Got it. After reading your first post I did some more digging and found that a huge majority of ESB recipes don't have any biscuit malts. I don't know why I included so many. I think I might have been getting styles mixed up in my head when I designed this. I'm pretty sure I did it in the middle of the night too. :o Anyway, here is the new recipe:

Style: Extra Special Bitter

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.4 SRM
IBU: 34.5 IBUs
OG: 1.054 SG
FG: 1.016 SG
ABV: 5.0 %

85.0% 9 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
7.5 % 12oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2.5 % 4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L
5.0 % 8 oz Victory Malt

Add 12 qt of 168F water - 154F for 60 min
Add 5 qt of 209F water - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Challenger 7.5 % ---------- Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 15 min
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent 5.0 % - Boil 5 min

British Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F

SkiNuke 06-21-2012 08:45 PM

Jamil's recipes for his bitters all seem to have some victory in it. I am not entirely sure what it added to my last bitter, but it turned out pretty good.

vinnythering 07-20-2012 09:57 PM

So I will be brewing this one on either July 27 or August 10. The owner of my LHBS urged me to stay away from the EKG and substitute with Warrior instead. I was very hesitant but decided to go ahead with his advice. Also, instead of Challenger I got Northern Brewers instead. Here is the revised recipe:

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.5 SRM
IBU: 41.7 IBUs
OG: 1.056 SG
FG: 1.016 SG
ABV: 5.3 %

85.7% 9 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
7.1 % 12oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2.4 % 4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L
4.8 % 8 oz Victory Malt

Add 8 qt of 134F water - 122F for 20 min
Add 6 qt of 210F water - 154F for 60 min
Decoct 4.5 qt and boil it - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Northern Brewer 9 % ------- Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Boil 15 min
0.25 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Boil 15 min
0.75 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Flame-Out
0.25 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Flame-Out

British Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F


Now, he said to just swap out the EKG for Warrior with equal weight. I understand that this is a BITTER that I'm making, but that would put me at almost 60 IBU, way higher than I want it. Maybe he misunderstood my intention or I misunderstood his direction, but maybe I can get some advice here as well.

Above is the new recipe, but it is by no means set in stone. I really want to use the Northern brewers for this beer, and I also have the following in stock that is unclaimed for future recipes:

1 oz Sterling 7.2%
1 oz Fuggles 4 - 5.5%
1 oz Willamette 4.7%
2 oz Warrior 16.7%
2 oz Northern Brewer 8 - 10%
1 oz Chinook 11.8%


I am open to more advice. Thanks in advance.

BigEd 07-21-2012 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnythering (Post 4267052)
So I will be brewing this one on either July 27 or August 10. The owner of my LHBS urged me to stay away from the EKG and substitute with Warrior instead. I was very hesitant but decided to go ahead with his advice. Also, instead of Challenger I got Northern Brewers instead.

Huh??? Has your LHBS guy ever tasted an ESB? Challenger and EKG would be a wonderful combination for an English ESB. Subbing Warrior is very suspect, at best.


Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnythering (Post 4267052)
Here is the revised recipe:

Estimated Measurements:
SRM: 10.5 SRM
IBU: 41.7 IBUs
OG: 1.056 SG
FG: 1.016 SG
ABV: 5.3 %

85.7% 9 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter
7.1 % 12oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
2.4 % 4 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 120L
4.8 % 8 oz Victory Malt

Add 8 qt of 134F water - 122F for 20 min
Add 6 qt of 210F water - 154F for 60 min
Decoct 4.5 qt and boil it - 168F for 10 min

1.00 oz Northern Brewer 9 % ------- Boil 60 min
1 Whirlfloc Tablet ---------------- Boil 15 min
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient ----------- Boil 15 min
0.50 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Boil 15 min
0.25 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Boil 15 min
0.75 oz Warrior 16.7 % ------------ Flame-Out
0.25 oz Fuggles 4.2 % ------------- Flame-Out

British Ale Yeast WLP005

2 weeks primary at 67F
2 weeks secondary at 67F


Now, he said to just swap out the EKG for Warrior with equal weight. I understand that this is a BITTER that I'm making, but that would put me at almost 60 IBU, way higher than I want it. Maybe he misunderstood my intention or I misunderstood his direction, but maybe I can get some advice here as well.

Above is the new recipe, but it is by no means set in stone. I really want to use the Northern brewers for this beer, and I also have the following in stock that is unclaimed for future recipes:

1 oz Sterling 7.2%
1 oz Fuggles 4 - 5.5%
1 oz Willamette 4.7%
2 oz Warrior 16.7%
2 oz Northern Brewer 8 - 10%
1 oz Chinook 11.8%


I am open to more advice. Thanks in advance.

Northern Brewer is fine for the bittering although Challenger would be even better, IMO. The Warrior, a high alpha American hop, is out of place as a late addition for this brew, the original choice of EKG is far better but to each his own. Your revised IBU number is much better than your LHBS guy had suggested. It falls pretty well in the 3:4 IBU:OG ratio normally targeted for this brew.

chezteth 07-21-2012 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigEd (Post 4267863)
Huh??? Has your LHBS guy ever tasted an ESB? Challenger and EKG would be a wonderful combination for an English ESB. Subbing Warrior is very suspect, at best.




Northern Brewer is fine for the bittering although Challenger would be even better, IMO. The Warrior, a high alpha American hop, is out of place as a late addition for this brew, the original choice of EKG is far better but to each his own. Your revised IBU number is much better than your LHBS guy had suggested. It falls pretty well in the 3:4 IBU:OG ratio normally targeted for this brew.

warrior is a great bittering hop. however, as previously mentioned warrior doesn't really belong in an ESB as a late addition. I would use EKG and fuggles.
cheers,
Brandon

SouthBay 07-21-2012 06:01 AM

funny. i just brewed an ESB with a very similar malt schedule (9# pale ale malt, 1# english crystal, 1/2# victory), but i went with a high alpha Willamette at 90 FWH and 10.

I second going with EKG or Fuggles, but i'm also partial to Willamette. Its similar enough to EKG and Fuggles. Post your tasting notes when you're done; i'd like to compare those to what i end up with, as i'm trying to tweak my ESB recipe.


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