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Old 04-30-2008, 10:56 AM   #1
bikegeek
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Default Experiences w/ WLP565 (Saison I)

I've brewed with 565 before, but ran fermentation too hot, too soon and ended up with a beer that was barely drinkable. This time around I wanted to try to ramp up the temp a bit slower.

On Sunday, I brewed wort at 1.056, cooled to 70F, and pitched ~83 billion cells (4mil/ml) of very healthy and active yeast grown for me in a lab by the microbiologist at a local brewery. Fermentation took off within 8 hours, temp. climbed to 74F on it's own and everything looked good. Yesterday morning, temp. was at 75F and everything was bubbling nicely. When I got home from work last night, krauesen was gone and there was no airlock activity; temp. was at 74F, gravity was only to 1.040. I've been raising the temp. and trying to rouse the yeast, but I'm getting nothing.

Any advice on my next step? I'm guessing I should probably try pitching more active 565, but wanted to see if there are similar experiences out there and how you remedied the problem.

Thanks

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Old 04-30-2008, 12:28 PM   #2
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I've never brewed with 565 specifically, but according to the Yeast Strain guide by Kristen England on the Mr Malty site, this strain is the Saison Dupont strain and would be the same as the Wyeast 3724 strain, which I currently have fermenting.

I had very similar experiences... dramatic early fermentation for the first 2-3 days and then a immediate cessation of all activity which left the specific gravity at 1.040. I did some research and found on Wyeasts website the below quote:

Quote:
Classic farmhouse ale yeast. Spicy and complex aromatics including bubble gum. Very tart and dry on palate with mild fruit. Finishes crisp and mildly acidic. Benefits from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 sg. Fermentation will eventually finish, given time and warm temperatures.
"


I increased the temp to about 83 degrees and let it go another week and a half, but only saw it drop to 1.031 SG. I got frustrated and as I was racking an American Brown from secondary to keg, I took the yeast cake of American Ale yeast and pitched it into the Saison fermenter....

Naturally, I then found this:

Quote:
If you cannot run your ferment at 90 with the Dupont strain, then plan on a very long and drawn out primary (weeks to a couple of months). If you can ferment at 90, then it will finish (and finish very complete) within days. A 75 degree F ferment could take a couple of months.

The key is to ferment at 90 from the start. Starting cool and then having to heat the brew later on to keep the ferment from slowing can have adverse effects on the beer. Prolonged fermentation at high temps can lead to oxidation and off flavors.

Jess Caudill
Brewer/Microbiologist
Wyeast Laboratories
This came from this thread (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=62843) which specifically talks about starting at lower temps and working up to higher temps as being the wrong way to go with this strain.

Hope this helps! Looks like you can let it sit for a while or pitch some more yeast of a different strain. My Saison is down to 1.013 (as of a couple days ago) and seems to have the right flavor and aroma profile, but I know it won't be quite right.

Cheers!
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:41 PM   #3
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Yeah, I would try to warm it up. That might help. It seems a lot of people have trouble with this strain. On the Jamil show that is discussing Saison, Chris White is there and discusses this yeast and what he thinks is the best way to handle this yeast. It is well worth a listen.

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Old 04-30-2008, 03:44 PM   #4
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I have tried 565 several times and cannot, no matter what, get it to ferment out to my desired dryness. I racked my saison onto a Pacman yeast cake and that worked, you could try that with another neutral (US05, 1056, etc) cake. I will be trying a different strain for my next saison.

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Old 04-30-2008, 11:21 PM   #5
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Great stuff folks, thanks!

Interesting that Wyeast recommends starting it at 90 as that's exactly what I did last time and the final product was awful: way too peppery and lots of hot alcohol. The good news is that mine is still doing something. I'm at 85F and I've got airlock activity again. I'll ramp it to 90F over the next day or so to see what happens. I may pitch a another saison or Belgian ale yeast if things are really taking too long.

Crabtre, I know of several commercial breweries that do exactly what you did and produce a very good, albeit sweeter, final product.

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Old 05-02-2008, 04:28 AM   #6
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Thanks! Good to know it should be okay. Cheers!

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Old 05-05-2008, 02:42 AM   #7
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I recently brewed a Saison, and after a month of fermenation stuck at 1020 (supposed to be 1013). This would explain it...

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Old 05-05-2008, 02:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabtre View Post

This came from this thread (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=62843) which specifically talks about starting at lower temps and working up to higher temps as being the wrong way to go with this strain.

Cheers!
just to be clear, that thread was not about the wyeast strain. i used yeast recultured directly from a saison dupont bottle.
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Old 05-10-2008, 01:27 AM   #9
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Well, it appears to be finished. Gravity is at 1.012 and airlock activity has ceased. I'm throwing in some Styrian Goldings while it clears. The plan is to bottle next weekend with a bit of fresh yeast.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

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Old 06-21-2008, 01:48 AM   #10
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Default identical experience

today was day 6 of my saison attempt with W Labs Saison I yeast
after one day of a 1" krausen, everything fell, and although I had it at 76 in the eaves of my bedroom, I was only down from 1.060 to 1.031, so I added W Labs 001 to finish the job

I hope this is acceptable. Maybe next time I will just let it sit for months in the eaves...

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