ESB recipe critique

K, I took the Fuller's ESB recipe from either BYO or Clone Brews and tweaked it. I'm looking for opinions. The grainbill is almost identical except I subbed some of the crystal 60 for 40 because I had it on hand. Also I have a lb of US Golding and Fuggle so I used those. What do you think about the late Fuggle addition? Should I make it all USG? I had to use wlp005 because I couldn't get wlp002 on short notice.

Recipe Specifications
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Batch Size: 5.20 gal
Boil Size: 5.95 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated Color: 9.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 36.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amount Item Type % or IBU
9 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 74.69 %
2 lbs Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 16.60 %
8.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.56 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.15 %
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.00 %] (60 min) (First Wort HopHops 14.7 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, US [4.50 %] (60 min) (First WorHops 16.5 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, US [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.70 %] (15 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
0.52 oz Burton Water Salts (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.04 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1.04 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs British Ale (White Labs #WLP005) [Starter Yeast-Ale

Looks good to me. Since you have so much of the hops, you might want to consider adding some aroma additions at flame out. I believe Fullers dry hops, so that is also an option.

I like the recipe as-is. the corn is a bit unusual, but it will lighten the body, which is fine for the style.

Judges should not judge all beers in this style as if they were Fuller's ESB clones. BJCP Guidelines 8C

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david_42 said:

I like the recipe as-is. the corn is a bit unusual, but it will lighten the body, which is fine for the style.

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The homebrewing scene is interesting. I guess most homebrewers are all-malt focused yet...

The corn is pretty much dead nuts on for what the commercial guys in Britain do. You should see their Porter recipes. That stuff is like 30% adjunct sugars and caramel colouring.

Just in case you're curious, this is from the Real Ale Almanac, circa 1997, by Roger Protz.

ESB

OG 1.054
5.5%abv

Ingredients: Alexis and Chariot pale malt (90%), crystal malt (3%), flaked maize (7%), caramel (coloring). 31 units of colour. Challenger, Northdown and Target hops for bitterness, Challenger, Northdown and Goldings for aroma; whole and pellet hops; dry-hopped. 35 IBUs.

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It certainly *doesn't* taste dry hopped, though, so if you do that, go very easy on it.

This is what the original Fuller's ESB's recipe would have looked like:

pale malt 75.68%
crystal 2.03%
flaked maize 14.19%
No. 3 invert sugar 3.38%
glucose 1.35%
PEX 2.36%
LME 1.01%

Worcester 70.84%
EK Goldings 17.54%
Styrian 11.62%

In case you're wondering, I've looked at their brewing records.

944play said:

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/cybi05-10-10.mp3

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The episode in which they did not use the specified malts (no British crystal), did not use specified hops (of which only northdown is hard to get), did not compensate for Fuller's 30 minute whirlpool (which turns those 3 minute hop additions into 20 minute additions by my reckoning) and didn't use only first runnings (which Fuller's openly states they do). I'm a fan of Jamil and his podcasts; they played a significant role in my deciding to go AG and trying to follow best procedures. That episode is not up to the standards they typically adhere to on that show.

patto1ro said:

This is what the original Fuller's ESB's recipe would have looked like:

pale malt 75.68%
crystal 2.03%
flaked maize 14.19%
No. 3 invert sugar 3.38%
glucose 1.35%
PEX 2.36%
LME 1.01%

Worcester 70.84%
EK Goldings 17.54%
Styrian 11.62%

In case you're wondering, I've looked at their brewing records.

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Interesting. What does PEX stand for?

Cross-linked polyethylene?

elkdog said:

and didn't use only first runnings (which Fuller's openly states they do).

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That's not true. Fuller's party-gyle ESB, but it doesn't only get first runnings. That wouldn't work, as they also party-gyle the much stronger Golden Pride with ESB. Even Golden Pride doesn't get only first runnings.

alcibiades said:

Interesting. What does PEX stand for?

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No idea. I just know that it's some type of sugar.

You can see an example of how Fuller's party-gyle here:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/05/fullers-party-gyle-from-1968.html

patto1ro said:

That's not true. Fuller's party-gyle ESB, but it doesn't only get first runnings. That wouldn't work, as they also party-gyle the much stronger Golden Pride with ESB. Even Golden Pride doesn't get only first runnings.

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All right, but they still indicated on the air (and in the brewer interview) that the ESB is mostly first runnings (or earlier runnings, if they're making the Golden Pride as well, which was not mentioned, and I've seen indications that it feeds into the London Pride and Chiswick Bitter so it's clear that the information on the web and from the brewer's mouth are inconsistent, perhaps on purpose), and did nothing in the brewing process to account for that.

elkdog said:

All right, but they still indicated on the air (and in the brewer interview) that the ESB is mostly first runnings (or earlier runnings, if they're making the Golden Pride as well, which was not mentioned, and I've seen indications that it feeds into the London Pride and Chiswick Bitter so it's clear that the information on the web and from the brewer's mouth are inconsistent, perhaps on purpose), and did nothing in the brewing process to account for that.

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Take a look at the link I posted above. It shows exactly how Fuller's party-gyle their beers together. It's from 1968, so the beers are slightly different, but the principle is the same. In my example, it's Golden Pride, Export London Pride, London Pride, and ordinary Bitter. Today it would be Golden Pride, ESB, London Pride and Chiswick.

patto1ro said:

Take a look at the link I posted above. It shows exactly how Fuller's party-gyle their beers together. It's from 1968, so the beers are slightly different, but the principle is the same. In my example, it's Golden Pride, Export London Pride, London Pride, and ordinary Bitter. Today it would be Golden Pride, ESB, London Pride and Chiswick.

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It's a good link for sure, and I've learned a lot from it, and I get the principle, so thanks for it.
The ESB, though, came out in 1971, and so while I get that it's a particular blend of the first and second worts (it would be 58.3% first wort to hit 1.060, assuming the gravities stayed the same), we still don't have a spot-on recipe for it. I suppose the thing to do would be to use the grist indicated on the podcast (95% Pale Malt, 5% Medium Crystal), and scale it to make enough of the first wort to fit the proportions the ESB would demand. They indicated a 1.060 OG for the bottled version, though what I had on cask in London is what I'd really spend a lot of time trying to replicate, and it's got .4% less abv, so about 1.057 seems like a good number (53.1% first wort, by my math).

EDIT: Just realized my math would apply to pre-boil gravities, and not OG's. I don't have time to correct it at the moment.

There's a lot of variables at play in terms of the wort gravities, but it ought to be do-able, though it looks like it will be labor intensive for a homebrewer, and there are lots of opportunites to deviate from the gravities Fuller's gets (while still making a good beer, I'd imagine). This would indicate why Fuller's is so hard to clone. Their process is highly efficient for a pro brewery, but the partigyle system is harder for a homebrewer to pull off in terms of logistics; I can only boil one batch at a time, and would spend all day trying to do two or more batches back to back.

Realistically, I'll still buy Fuller's when I want it, and will use it as a guidepost in formulating my own recipes that will work relatively efficiently on my system. There are recipes that get close, at least. Their process far exceeds the limitations of my space and equipment.

elkdog said:

It's a good link for sure, and I've learned a lot from it, and I get the principle, so thanks for it.
The ESB, though, came out in 1971, and so while I get that it's a particular blend of the first and second worts (it would be 58.3% first wort to hit 1.060, assuming the gravities stayed the same),

......

EDIT: Just realized my math would apply to pre-boil gravities, and not OG's. I don't have time to correct it at the moment.

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The OG of draught ESB is about 1055.

Fuller's blend after the boil. They mash, run off the first wort and boil that while they sparge. By the time that boil has finished, the second wort has been collected and is ready to be boiled.

John Keeling, head of brewing at Fuller's, commented on a earlier post of mine about party-gyling:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/04/parti-gyle-examples.html

Excellent points elkdog, that podcast was a letdown, especially when compared with Ron's wonderful blog on the subject. More than half-arsed, no wonder they didn't succeed. However, their rebrew show earlier this month (different beers) was informative and I look forward to how they tackle London Pride and discuss the partigyle process. I suspect they did not do this for this beer either and wonder if they'll contemplate it for a rebrew.

I wonder if the difference lies in how we interpret partygyling rather than how it is actually done, as Ron explores in his blog. Great info!

patto1ro said:

The OG of draught ESB is about 1055.

Fuller's blend after the boil. They mash, run off the first wort and boil that while they sparge. By the time that boil has finished, the second wort has been collected and is ready to be boiled.

John Keeling, head of brewing at Fuller's, commented on a earlier post of mine about party-gyling:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/04/parti-gyle-examples.html

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This is very cool. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, and your blog url, with us. Even if I can't quite pull it off at home (a lot of folks here could- my brew set up is fairly small and is about to be moved to NC, so not looking to expand right this moment), it's very cool to see how Fuller's (and other English breweries) make some great beers.

So the blending takes place post-boil but pre-ferment? That makes sense, especially in terms of saving time at the brewery. I like to see how these brews are products of the craft of brewing, the science of brewing, and the business of brewing.

As 14thstreet said, your blog provides the info I'd like to have heard on the podcast. John Keeling's presence on the blog is cool to see, as well. I take back any suggestion that he may have intentionally withheld info.