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Old 04-13-2007, 06:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dude
Is freaking dunkelweizen the same thing as weizenbock?
this is how I've come to understand it:

dunkelweizen is essentially a dark hefeweizen, and is made with traditional hefe-type yeast.

weizenbock is a bock (lager, most of the time) made with wheat malt.

Schneider confuses this by calling Aventinus a "wheat doppelbock", even though it is fermented with ale (hefe) yeast.
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Old 04-14-2007, 01:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan!
this is how I've come to understand it:

dunkelweizen is essentially a dark hefeweizen, and is made with traditional hefe-type yeast.

weizenbock is a bock (lager, most of the time) made with wheat malt.

Schneider confuses this by calling Aventinus a "wheat doppelbock", even though it is fermented with ale (hefe) yeast.
It is confusing! Schneider actually invented Weizenbock with Aventinus...it's definitely a wheat beer made with a Hefeweizen ale yeast. Sometimes lager yeasts are used for bottle conditioning, but don't contribute significantly to the fermentation characteristics.

In the case of Weizenbock the bock or doppelbock designation is only used to indicate that it is a higher abv beer, not that it is fermented with a bock or other lager yeast. Grab an Aventinus and you'll taste that it is clearly fermented with a Hefeweizen strain.

There is some misinformation out there, though.
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Old 04-14-2007, 01:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
It is confusing! Schneider actually invented Weizenbock with Aventinus...it's definitely a wheat beer made with a Hefeweizen ale yeast. Sometimes lager yeasts are used for bottle conditioning, but don't contribute significantly to the fermentation characteristics.

In the case of Weizenbock the bock or doppelbock designation is only used to indicate that it is a higher abv beer, not that it is fermented with a bock or other lager yeast. Grab an Aventinus and you'll taste that it is clearly fermented with a Hefeweizen strain.

There is some misinformation out there, though.
So what you are saying is they are the same?
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Old 04-14-2007, 01:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude
So what you are saying is they are the same?
I'm saying Schneider Aventinus == Weizenbock == wheat doppelbock and that it's an ale.

Edit: now I understand the question. I believe technically that a Dunkelweizen is a normal strength darkish wheat beer while a Weizenbock is high abv, ~7-8%. The grists may be similar in terms of malts used and %'s, but I'm not sure.
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Old 04-14-2007, 10:12 PM   #15
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Operation Dunkelweizen is in full-swing now...

Last night I had Erdinger Dunkelweiss: It was very dark, I'd say almost black. The taste was almost completely lacking the banana/clovieness, of a weiss. There was a very slight roasty edge, though there was no harshness to it. Highly carbed, pretty good, but not what I'm after.

Right now I'm drinking Edelweiss Dunkel and Konig Ludwig Weiss in a side by side ()

This Dunkel is more of a copper color as opposed to the black of the Erdinger. Taste is much closer to that of a traditional Weiss with lots of banana and all that other good stuff. When compared to the baseline weiss, it's a much fuller, and richer beer but maintains the crispness of a heffe. This is what I'm after!

I think for my first attempt, I'm going to use 50/50 munich/wheat for the grist, and bitter with Hallertau to 14IBUs

Comments?

How about mash schedules?

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Old 04-14-2007, 10:19 PM   #16
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Sounds excellent! I had that same original plan for mine but I added the chocolate because I could only get the lighter munich and wanted a slightly darker colour (mine calculated out to 18SRM with the chocolate).

If you have the capability I've been reading that a step mash with a rest at 122F is good for high wheat content grain bills. I don't have that capability personally so I just mashed at 153F for 60 minutes; I wanted a slightly maltier tone to mine but still have the yeast flavour dominent. If you wanted it nice and crisp you might want to try a lower temp., maybe 151F or even 150F? Take that with a grain of salt though; I'm by no means an expert.

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Old 04-14-2007, 10:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsul
Sounds excellent! I had that same original plan for mine but I added the chocolate because I could only get the lighter munich and wanted a slightly darker colour (mine calculated out to 18SRM with the chocolate).

Interesting, I think I'm looking for about 18 for this one, so I'll see where it takes me without the chocolate. I can see getting there eventually however, as I think a little roast might to a dunkel good!

I may do a step mash, I may even do a decoction. I'll do the kind that Dude does. He says it's not decocting, so it's not.
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Old 04-14-2007, 10:39 PM   #18
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This is my next brew too...I'll have a cake of the WLP320 that I want to use again. I know it won't be authentic German but I'm not a huge fan of the big time clovey phenols that the Germen hefe yeasts give you anyway. It will be close enough for me.

So, I'm straight up brewing Baron's recipe.

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Old 04-14-2007, 10:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude
So, I'm straight up brewing Baron's recipe.

You mean the Weizenbock?
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Old 04-14-2007, 10:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheyco Libre
You mean the Weizenbock?
Yes....

(sorry, I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the two )
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