SamBrewer

Recipes 

Hi everybody!

I'm trying to improve 5-6 styles of beers that i brew every year by pefectioning my recipes, and dry stout is one of them.

I've tried different yeast and different waters, and now the result is very good! not too far from the ones I've tasted in Dublin.

the recipe in term of grain is very simple: maris otter as the base and roased barly, that's it! no crystal or other grains because I want it to finish as dry as possible.

the only thing that I don't like very much is that it's not as smooth as I want, maybe too coffee, you think that using black malt instead of roasted barley may solve the problem?

It's been a long time since I used black malt, what is the main difference between the two?

david_42

Recipes 

Black malt will cut the burnt, coffee flavors roasted barley is famous for. I'd recommend trying half/half for your next batch, that will keep the color while reducing the coffee. You really need some roasted barley to make it a stout, though.

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Guess42

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Why would he need the roasted barley? To be more helpful I like going with only black malt in my RIS, but that ages for a while. Young black malt can have a very ashy taste to it. Something to think about.

greatschmaltez

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I think what david meant was that it is a characteristic of the style. I tend to agree, based on everything I've read on stouts, the key characteristic ingredient is the use of roast barley. That's not to say you can't go outside the box, just like making a hef with no wheat, but text book stout, whether being Dry, American/foreign, or Russian should have roast barley.

But how many of us ever use the stuff we read in text books. Brew to your taste at the end of the day... Otherwise, you could just buy a beer.

That being said, if you wanna cut down on the burnt coffee, just cut down on the roast barley. Guiness only uses like 10% I believe.

SamBrewer

Recipes 

I'm actually using 8% of roasted barley so I think that I'm not overusing it.

I think that to understand the difference between the two malts the best thing is to perform a split batch ( using DME as the base) steeping just roast barley in one of them and only black in the other.

what would you aspect in a experiment like this ??

greatschmaltez

Recipes 

I think you are going to get way overwhelmed with the black patent versus the roast barley. Usually with black patent, you don't wanna go over half a pound at most, that's kind of the threshold where it goes from roasty/smoky to burnt coffee. Black patent is usually used in porters to give it that robustness. I like to think roasted barley is a little more mellow than the black patent. Another thing you can do is sweeten up and hop up your stout a bit. That'll cut the roast on the back end of the taste. Use a little crystal and chocolate malt and hop with some of the earthy spicy hops, I like chinook + Kent goldings combo for bitter/flavor

GuldTuborg

Recipes 

No offense to you, but most people who state this have never used a significant amount of black malt; it has been and can be used in very significant quantity without bad flavors. The recipe for Obsidian Stout, which a lot of people like, uses 1.5lbs in a 5 gallon batch. I actually prefer black malt to roast barley in stouts, though I do not make the dry Irish variety. The two grains are definitely different, and I would recommend the split batch approach, mentioned above, as the only way to get a handle on exactly how they differ.

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Don't worry, be hoppy.

Guess42

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Also, the whole defining porter and stout by which dark malt they used is not really at all useful. There was a time period where black and brown malts were the only dark malts. Both styles still existed.

To the op. the only way to learn is to do exactly what you said. Split the batch an steep the dark malt. It's a good experiment.

greatschmaltez

Recipes 

No offense taken, like I said, that's why we homebrew, to make what we like. I'd say the trial mentioned above would be a good idea too, I was just saying what I thought the original poster would expect based on my experience brewing and the literature that I've read. Seeing as there is a difference of opinion, I would guess the original poster would be encouraged to run the trial.

Clifton

Recipes 

I just made the BYO clone of Edmund Fitzgerald Porter. I'm going to make it again and swap the 8 oz of roast barley for black malt. I'll compare the two in about 6 weeks.