Dry Lager Yeast?

Can we talk about Dry Lager Yeasts? Specifically Saflager S-23 and W-34/70.

I have done a search and the results were

1. 1/2 the people said dry lager yeasts are crap and should never be used and will never be any good.

2. 1/2 the people say dry lager yeasts are getting better but results are still variable.

3. 1/2 the people say dry lager yeasts are great and can all ways be used.

4. 1/2 the people are not good with fractions.

Alot of the posts are a couple of years old and I know that the W-34/70 just recently came on stream and I'm wondering if that changes things

Really my questions really come down to these-

Some people say they give an "off" flavour. What exactly is "off"?

People say W-34/70 is the Weihenstephan strain and is good for European lagers. But I always though that a Helles was made by the yeast (ie Malty) and other German Pils were made by their yeast (ie really dry). Can this yeast do both? Is it somewhere in the middle?

If W-34/70 is for "European" lagers whats S-23 good for? American Standard Lagers, CAPS?

Full disclosure I really like dry Ale yeast. I can't tell the difference between an Ale made with WLP001 and one made with US-05. At least the way i make them. Currently only use Liquid yeast for my lagers, Heffe's and Kolsch's.

Thanks
Rudeboy

All my attempts at using S-23 have resulted in beers that were disgustingly fruity and un-lagerlike. My couple tries with 34/70 were pretty good. S-189 is my favorite dry lager yeast.

Denny said:

All my attempts at using S-23 have resulted in beers that were disgustingly fruity and un-lagerlike. My couple tries with 34/70 were pretty good. S-189 is my favorite dry lager yeast.

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I've never used 34/70, but my results are exactly the same as Denny for 23 and 189

I have had good results bottling Barleywines with 23 after aging, about the only thing it's good for IMHO

Actually, somebody sent me some of my BVIP recipe he'd used S-23 on just to tweak me. It was damn good, but with all the flavors in that beer you really couldn't make any judgments about the yeast. When I made a Dort export with it, it was SO bad that I sent some to John Palmer to see if he could identify the flavor. He told me it tasted like Bartles and Jaymes Passion Fruit wine cooler!

A good test would be to brew a 10 gallon batch split into 2 carboys. Ferment one with WLP-830 or Wyeast 2124 and the other with Fermentis W-34/70. I might try that when I can brew a lager again (chest freezer has temporarily become keezer).

Denny said:

Actually, somebody sent me some of my BVIP recipe he'd used S-23 on just to tweak me. It was damn good, but with all the flavors in that beer you really couldn't make any judgments about the yeast. When I made a Dort export with it, it was SO bad that I sent some to John Palmer to see if he could identify the flavor. He told me it tasted like Bartles and Jaymes Passion Fruit wine cooler!

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Chumleys version was good, eh

Denny said:

All my attempts at using S-23 have resulted in beers that were disgustingly fruity and un-lagerlike. My couple tries with 34/70 were pretty good. S-189 is my favorite dry lager yeast.

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I can't find any suppliers for S-189.

Emm. Starting to see a trend.

People seem to be liking W-34/70 to a point. But at 3 bucks a pop or so at two packets it's getting close to the price of liquid yeast anyway. Although I still want to try it because of ease/length of storage and not having to make a starter.

S-23 not so much. As anyone successfully used S-23 in a light lager?

The thought of a 6 hour brew day followed by 3 months of taking up space in my lagering chest all to produce five gallons of fruit cocktail is not very inviting.

Rudeboy

Rudeboy said:

1. 1/2 the people said dry lager yeasts are crap and should never be used and will never be any good.

2. 1/2 the people say dry lager yeasts are getting better but results are still variable.

3. 1/2 the people say dry lager yeasts are great and can all ways be used.

4. 1/2 the people are not good with fractions.

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1/2 the people didn't read through the post far enough and they thought they would be clever by posting something about giving it your "200%", but then realized they had been tricked by your superior intellect :cross:

niquejim said:

Chumleys version was good, eh

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Like everything he makes...

Rudeboy said:

I can't find any suppliers for S-189.

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Swiss Lager Yeast - Saflager S-189, 11 g American Brewmaster

I brewed a basic Pilsner on Sunday and used a packet of S-189 that Denny gave me. My wife is going to brew a CAP and pitch that on the cake from the Pilsner.

Does anyone who has used S-198 have any recommendations to other styles that we could do with it while we have it active?

Tom

Tom, I jut put a maibock with it in to lager and it's tasting very promising. Also great for bock. I've made a really good dunkel with it in the past.

So the general consensus is that S-23 is no good? I was looking forward to it being my option for making a lager at a little higher temperatures...

I just bottled a lager fermented with s-23, it seems a little bit fruity but I will have to wait until they are conditioned and carbed in a few weeks maybe.

The recipe was based on/inspired by the cream of three crops recipe:
6lbs 2 row
2lbs flaked corn
2lbs flaked rice
1oz saaz(3.2aau) 90minutes

after this has conditioned any flaws will be immediately apparent so ill post back after I taste it.

I use Superior Lager dry yeast in my Pils. It still needs to lager a little longer in the bottle but I have had a few of them. It's not fruity at all.

I'll second the use of Superior - been using it a lot. BTW, I still believe that it's repackaged Mauribrew Lager 497. It's pretty forgiving temperature-wise (except for that batch of Bock that got out of control, but that was my fault). I've used it at temps as high as 70 degrees and still got a very clean taste, though I think its sweet spot is closer to 60 degrees. Matter of fact, at this moment I'm drinking a BMC type brew I fermented with Superior. Finally brewed something my wife will drink! I was going to bring the keg to a Superbowl party, but she's allowing me to bring only a 12-pack of her beer.

My LHBS just started carrying Fermentis yeast. After reading the horror stories about S-23, I decided to go with 34/70 on my latest Czech Pilsner. It's chugging away in the basement as we speak. I'm interested to see how it comes out.

I used it at 50-53F and it fermented my 1.044 wort in about 10 days. I'm using it again for a Dunkel I'm decocting right now.

Where do you guys get this Superior lager yeast? I looked it up online when Conroe mentioned it the other day, it looks interesting...It's Australian, right? That's the one I found online. I haven't noticed it at any of the shops I got to..but then again I've only started playing with lager yeast in the last month or so...

Revvy said:

Where do you guys get this Superior lager yeast? I looked it up online when Conroe mentioned it the other day, it looks interesting...It's Australian, right? That's the one I found online. I haven't noticed it at any of the shops I got to..but then again I've only started playing with lager yeast in the last month or so...

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My LHBS carries it. I've used it for bottling lagers that lagered for a long time. Didn't notice any fruitiness, etc., but it was just for bottling. Never fermented a batch with it.

The only dry lager yeast I've used is Saflager S-23. Got great results. Nice not having to do a starter. I pitch at 70F and put it in the cooler set at 50F when fermentation starts.

Revvy said:

Where do you guys get this Superior lager yeast? I looked it up online when Conroe mentioned it the other day, it looks interesting...It's Australian, right? That's the one I found online. I haven't noticed it at any of the shops I got to..but then again I've only started playing with lager yeast in the last month or so...

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Mr. Beer used to carry it. Dropped off the site a couple months ago though...

Midwest Supplies carries it. I think it's the basic yeast that ships with many of their lager recipes.
Interesting that it's $1.20 at Midwest. It's only a buck at my LHBS, not that 20 cents is a big deal.

Superior Lager (7 grams) :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

My Pils is pretty much done now. I gave a friend some and he said it's the best beer I've made. He's wrong, but it's clean and hop forward. I think I'd prefer it a little more malt forward.

My Dunkel is 96% Munich malt so I bet it's going to be plenty malty anyway. I pitched most of the washed cake into it at 50F and it took off fine. It's going at 47-50f now.

david_42 said:

The only dry lager yeast I've used is Saflager S-23. Got great results. Nice not having to do a starter. I pitch at 70F and put it in the cooler set at 50F when fermentation starts.

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No butter?