Does Rice work Against CaraPils Dextrine ?

I'm planning on brewing a lager this weekend, and I'm adding 1# Rice Flakes to the Mash to try and get it dry and crisp, but I'm also adding 1/4# of CaraPils to get a little foam and head with the beer.

It just occured to me that this might not be the best idea ? Does adding CaraPils to get a little better head work against the dry and crisp effect that I'm trying to get with the rice ?

Already bought the grains and I'm ready to brew it, but I guess I could leave the Flaked Rice out if I had too..

4 oz of cara-pils won't hurt that lager. Just mash on the low side, about 149f for 90 minutes. You'll get your dry lager.

You're mashing, right? If you can do a protein rest, you don't need foam-enhancing specialty grains.

Bob

Adding rice won't necessarily make a dry beer. The rice contributes starch without flavor. The mash temp (and thickness to a lesser extent) will determine the fermentability of the wort.

BobNQ3X said:

You're mashing, right? If you can do a protein rest, you don't need foam-enhancing specialty grains.

Bob

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Yes I am mashing. I was already planning on 149F for 90 as boo boo suggested.

6# US 2-Row
5.5# Pilsner
4 oz CaraPils
1 # Rice Flakes

Last time I used .5# CaraPils and ended up with a head of foam that would stand 2 inches tall so I got the idea that maybe I overdid it a bit, so this time I'm cutting back to only 4 oz. Also, when I've made this before I didn't add the rice at all, just went with 11.5# Pils. This time, I'm splitting the difference between the Pils and the US 2-Row.

I'm expecting to hit near 1.060. Sort of what I'm going for is something like a Classic American Pilsner but going with the Rice instead of the Corn so it tastes more familiar like what someone will recognize as beer. Basically an American Lager but pushed up "bigger" pre-prohibition style.

I'm still not sure if I'm on track with the Rice or not though ? I figure 1# of the rice is just less than 10% of my grain and I'm expecting it to not really add much taste, I just want it to ferment nice and dry.

For my hops, I'm targeting the mid-20s.

1 oz Sterling leaf 6.7% AA at 60
1 oz Liberty pellet 3.7% at 20

Feeling pretty good about the hop choice too, to my tastes Sterling and Liberty make a great combination.

Pretty what I'm doing with this recipe is taking my Alabama Pilsner recipe from my Pulldown recipe menu, and trying to tweak it more in the BMC direction with the rice and different hops.

Actually now that I've had a chance to think it over, I think I'm going to do two batches and make the second batch with 1/2# less of each malt and use 2#s of the rice flakes and just see which one I like better.

Thanks for the ideas and comments.

Why not try a 1950s Brooklyn Pilsner beer? 70% pale malt (they used 6-row, but those were the days before high-modification 2-row pale malts), 30% flaked maize. Brew to 12°P (1.048). Hop with Cluster or Willamette (your Sterling and Liberty will work nicely, too) to 26-30 IBU, with just enough flavor addition to give a hint. Boil at least 90 minutes to drive off DMS. Ferment with your choice of lager yeast and lager for at least a month.

I'm lagering one of these right now, in fact.

If you're going to see much from the adjunct in the finished beer, you need to approach more than 25% of the grist. Less than 10% won't have a noticeable impact, IMO.

I'd omit the Carapils and do a 20-minute rest at 122°F. Ramp up with boiling water to 150 and do your saccharifaction rest. Of course you'll have to dough in with ~0.8 quarts per pound, but that's okay. Your software will figure it out.

Bob

BobNQ3X said:

Why not try a 1950s Brooklyn Pilsner beer? 70% pale malt (they used 6-row, but those were the days before high-modification 2-row pale malts), 30% flaked maize. Brew to 12°P (1.048). Hop with Cluster or Willamette (your Sterling and Liberty will work nicely, too) to 26-30 IBU, with just enough flavor addition to give a hint. Boil at least 90 minutes to drive off DMS. Ferment with your choice of lager yeast and lager for at least a month.

I'd omit the Carapils and do a 20-minute rest at 122°F. Ramp up with boiling water to 150 and do your saccharifaction rest. Of course you'll have to dough in with ~0.8 quarts per pound, but that's okay. Your software will figure it out.

Bob

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I'm planning on brewing something like that on Monday. Instead of flaked maize, I'm going to do a cereal mash using coarse corn meal, and see how far the addition of the boiling corn will take me up from 122ºF. If it doesn't go all the way, I'll also try out my new heat stick.

Any thoughts?

None, off the top of my head. Sounds like you've got all bases covered. When I mashed mine, I used the flaked grains, so I could dough-in with the flakes included for the protein rest.

It's nagging at me - the thought that you should have your cereal "mash" included for the protein rest. But I can't swear to it. Dash it all!

Bob

lustreking said:

I'm planning on brewing something like that on Monday. Instead of flaked maize, I'm going to do a cereal mash using coarse corn meal, and see how far the addition of the boiling corn will take me up from 122ºF. If it doesn't go all the way, I'll also try out my new heat stick.

Any thoughts?

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I may try something like that very soon as well. I've been kind of shying away from jumping into the flaked maize though, but that experiment is somewhere on the horizon, right now I want to get the feel for best using the rice. I've got plenty of Willamettes that need to be used up, and I also really love the smell of Cluster hops but I've not gotten a chance to see what they're like in a brew yet.

From what I've read when you use the maize/corn then you do need to a separate cereal mash if you use corn grits. If I understand correctly, if you use flaked maize you don't absolutely have too. I haven't tried it yet, so I don't really have an opinion one way or the other except to repeat what I've been told.

If you're going to see much from the adjunct in the finished beer, you need to approach more than 25% of the grist. Less than 10% won't have a noticeable impact, IMO.

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I'm hoping that will be the case with the rice. What I'm going for is not adding flavor, rather I'm just trying to get some extra OG without the malt.

I use torrified wheat for a crisp finish and head retention...Not sure if this can be used in a lager though.

TeleTwanger said:

I use torrified wheat for a crisp finish and head retention...Not sure if this can be used in a lager though.

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I've thought about that - but wheat has a "tart" taste. One of the reasons I'm using Rice is that it doesn't have any noticable flavor.