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Old 05-19-2009, 08:39 PM   #1
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Default Dark Lord Clone - help with recipe/technique

***New Recipe formulation, post #40

I was at Dark Lord Day '09 and had Dark lord on tap. It was the one aged in oak with vanilla beans ('08 Dark Lord). I absolutely loved it. Best beer I have ever had. So of course I want to brew it.

This recipe will be my first attempt at it. I imagine when this is done I'll tweak it to taste.


Recipe: Dark Lord
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain

Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.94 gal
Estimated OG: 1.134 SG
Estimated Color: 87.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 67.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.00 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

8.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) 1.54 %
18 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) 55.60 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Roasted Barley (500.0 SRM) 7.72 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 4.63 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) 4.63 %
1 lbs Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) 3.09 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) 3.09 %
1 lbs Pale Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM) 3.09 %
8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) 1.54 %
6.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) 1.16 %

2.50 oz Magnum [14.50 %] (120 min) 74.1 IBU

During Primary
2 lbs Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) 6.18 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4.63 %
1 lbs Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 3.09 %

4.00 oz Cofeee (Kona) (Secondary 24.0 hours)
4.00 oz Oak chips - soaked in bourbon (Secondary 14.0 days)

Nottingham Yeast Cake

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 34.88 lb
----------------------------
60 min 34.84 qt of water at 164.6 F rest at 150.0 F

Est Original Gravity: 1.134 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.030 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 13.69 %
Bitterness: 74.1 IBU
Calories: 651 cal/pint
Est Color: 93.8 SRM



Notes:
------
Boiling for ~120 minutes to be able to run some sparge water through the grains

Add ground coffee to fermenter after primary fermentation is done, rack to secondary after 24 hours.

Soak oak chips in bourbon for a few weeks, add those and two split/scraped vanilla beans to secondary for ~ 2 weeks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I measured the Final Gravity of Dark Lord last night. It was at 1.033. I let it go flat and get to room temp before measuring.

I have moved some of the fermentables to a 2 lb addtion of DME in primary as well. This way I'll be able to mash this in my 10 gallon cooler (@ 1 qt/lb)
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Primary: Nothin
Secondary: Shady Lord RIS, Water to Barleywine, Pumpkin wine, burnt mead
Kegged: Crappy infected mild
Bottles: Apfelwein, 999 Barleywine, Oatmeal Stout, Robust Porter, Robust smoked porter, Simcoe Smash


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Old 05-19-2009, 08:45 PM   #2
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I would use the VSS Imperial Blend 9037 that Wyeast had out last month instead of Notty.

The Pale Malt amount seems a little high to me for some reason. The Imperial Blend will attenuate lower to give a similar alcohol burn that's in the DLS.

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Old 05-20-2009, 02:20 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimer View Post
I would use the VSS Imperial Blend 9037 that Wyeast had out last month instead of Notty.

The Pale Malt amount seems a little high to me for some reason. The Imperial Blend will attenuate lower to give a similar alcohol burn that's in the DLS.
I've updated the original post with my actual specific gravity measurement of Dark Lord. 1.033 is high but nothing like the 1.065 I'd read. It is very very thick in the glass. It had a lot more coffee/roast aroma/taste than I remembered so I upped the roasted barley.

As for the yeast... I have gotten up to 13% alcohol with Nottingham before (for the 999 barleywine). I always hesitate to use yeast specific to high alcohol fermentations because I've heard of the fusel alcohol off flavors they can produce. Have you used the Imperial Blend? It might be worht picking it up. I'd still want to brew another beer with it first and put the Dark Lord wort on that cake.
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Primary: Nothin
Secondary: Shady Lord RIS, Water to Barleywine, Pumpkin wine, burnt mead
Kegged: Crappy infected mild
Bottles: Apfelwein, 999 Barleywine, Oatmeal Stout, Robust Porter, Robust smoked porter, Simcoe Smash

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Old 05-20-2009, 04:35 PM   #4
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Good to see more work on this kind of recipe!
@slimer I used the Wyeast Imperial Strain in my edition, seems good so far. Check it out here My shot at Dark Lord, brewed on Dark Lord Day! - Home Brew Forums

@conpewter
I think adding the honey and molasses in at the end of the boil is a good thing, here is what I would do. If you are plan on doing a 5.5g batch, boil down until you are at about 5.2 gallons, and add the honey/molasses. That way the volume increase from adding liquids fits in with your plan. I was actually shooting for 1.16 or so @ 5.3g, and added the honey/molasses at the end and it raised my volume to 5.8g which brought me back down to 1.134. I'd also keep it simple and add the DME after the mash and before the boil so it gets dissolved and doesn't get burned.
Less opporitunities for infection/contamination the better.

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Old 05-20-2009, 06:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saq View Post
Good to see more work on this kind of recipe!
@slimer I used the Wyeast Imperial Strain in my edition, seems good so far. Check it out here My shot at Dark Lord, brewed on Dark Lord Day! - Home Brew Forums

@conpewter
I think adding the honey and molasses in at the end of the boil is a good thing, here is what I would do. If you are plan on doing a 5.5g batch, boil down until you are at about 5.2 gallons, and add the honey/molasses. That way the volume increase from adding liquids fits in with your plan. I was actually shooting for 1.16 or so @ 5.3g, and added the honey/molasses at the end and it raised my volume to 5.8g which brought me back down to 1.134. I'd also keep it simple and add the DME after the mash and before the boil so it gets dissolved and doesn't get burned.
Less opporitunities for infection/contamination the better.
I agree that I need to always be careful about infection, but I was planning on adding some of the fermentables later because I didn't want to stress the yeast with a 1.13 wort right off the bat. It would be better to work them up to it and that way they'll attenuate out better. I had planned on boiling off more than 5.5 gallons, Since I'm doing less honey/molasses I should be fine with boiling down to 5.25 as mentioned. I do plan on boiling the DME (if any is needed) before adding to the fermenter.
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Primary: Nothin
Secondary: Shady Lord RIS, Water to Barleywine, Pumpkin wine, burnt mead
Kegged: Crappy infected mild
Bottles: Apfelwein, 999 Barleywine, Oatmeal Stout, Robust Porter, Robust smoked porter, Simcoe Smash

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Old 06-17-2009, 04:50 PM   #6
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Default Next version.

Ok I brewed the first one and missed my gravity (1.104 OG from grain, with the honey and molasses it was 1.117). I also forgot the coffee addition at the end of the boil. I plan to re-brew to hit the higher gravity and maybe change it up a little

I need some more advice


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.98 gal
Estimated OG: 1.133 SG
Estimated Color: 99.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 87.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.00 %
Boil Time: 180 Minutes

Ingredients:
1 lbs Rice Hulls
20 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row)
2 lbs 8.0 oz Roasted Barley
1 lbs 8.0 oz Barley, Flaked
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L
1 lbs Chocolate Malt
1 lbs Oats, Flaked
1 lbs Pale Chocolate Malt
8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt
8.0 oz Special B Malt
2.50 oz Magnum [14.50 %] (180 min) Hops 87.6 IBU
2.00 oz American Oak cubes, medium toast - soaked in burbon
2.00 oz Cofeee (Kona) (Boil 0.0 min)
3.00 items Vanilla Beans (?)
4.00 oz Cofeee (Kona) (Primary 24.0 hours) Misc
1 lbs 8.0 oz Honey (1.0 SRM) (Primary, when fermentation slows)
8.0 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM)(Primary, when fermentation slows)
0 Pkgs Nottingham yeast cake


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 30.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 30.00 qt of water at 172.9 F 154.0 F

************************************************** ********


I've never used vanilla beans or oak cubes before. I bought some vanilla beans at Costco, $12 for 10 beans, they come in two glass tubes 5 beans each.

When I tasted the Dark Lord (on oak/beans) at DLD the vanilla was almost overwhelming, very nice actually. I didn't get a lot of oak flavor.

I don't know how long to leave it on the oak cubes as I don't want a lot of oakiness, just a bit and some of the complexity. I was thinking of putting in 1 oz of cubes (instead of the usual 2.5 oz) and 3 vanilla beans, split and scraped. I'd leave it on those in the secondary for almost a year. I'm just not sure about leaving it on oak that long, even if it is a smaller amount.

Also since the original is aged in a bourbon barrel, I was thinking of soaking my oak cubes in bourbon for a month, then either just putting in the cubes, or the cubes and the bourbon.

File Type: bsm DarkLordII.bsm (22.0 KB, 94 views)
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Primary: Nothin
Secondary: Shady Lord RIS, Water to Barleywine, Pumpkin wine, burnt mead
Kegged: Crappy infected mild
Bottles: Apfelwein, 999 Barleywine, Oatmeal Stout, Robust Porter, Robust smoked porter, Simcoe Smash

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Old 06-17-2009, 06:22 PM   #7
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You are going to way overdo it with the oak and vanilla bean. I would say leave the oak out for the first run as that is not used in the "regular" dark lord, only the bourbon barrel aged. Plus when oak aging with chips you only want about 3-4 weeks worth of aging.

Secondly, one vanilla bean goes a looooong way. I put a single large madagascar vanilla bean in my secondary for 2 weeks and the flavor it added was substantial, but its a volatile flavor and has faded a little bit to a more well balanced level.

My version of the beer is in a keg right now finishing up 4 weeks of bulk aging, and then its going to go in the kegorator to chill and then carbonate. I can't wait to try it.

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Old 06-17-2009, 06:37 PM   #8
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Nice! The usual way to use cubes (not chips) is 2.5 ounces for 2-3 months. I'm just trying to keep from racking to a tertiary. I plan on putting the coffee in the primary after 2-4 weeks of fermentation (and aging). Then transfer after a day to secondary.

You are right about the vanilla bean. It would be better to put one in and just see how it works. I have a year worth of aging to put more in if I need it.

I found it very interesting comparing the 2009 to the 2008 I had on DLD. The 2009 had a strong strong coffee/roasted flavor. I can only imagine that mellowed down a lot into what the 2008 tasted like.

Edit: oh and I am going for the bourbon barrel aged on vanilla beans version. That was just one of the most amazing beers I've ever had.

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"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." - V

Primary: Nothin
Secondary: Shady Lord RIS, Water to Barleywine, Pumpkin wine, burnt mead
Kegged: Crappy infected mild
Bottles: Apfelwein, 999 Barleywine, Oatmeal Stout, Robust Porter, Robust smoked porter, Simcoe Smash

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Old 06-17-2009, 06:45 PM   #9
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Wyeast Imperial Blend (9093) Private Collection - Wyeast - High Gravity

This the yeast you mean? (Wyeast 9093)
Looks good, I just hope to not dry this out since I got FG reading on true Dark Lord at 1.033
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Primary: Nothin
Secondary: Shady Lord RIS, Water to Barleywine, Pumpkin wine, burnt mead
Kegged: Crappy infected mild
Bottles: Apfelwein, 999 Barleywine, Oatmeal Stout, Robust Porter, Robust smoked porter, Simcoe Smash

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Old 06-17-2009, 06:47 PM   #10
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Thats the one I used! I hit 1.029 FG so its a pretty close. I was worried with the high mash temp I did and a lot of the flaked stuff I'd end up with a FG that was too massive. I hope to be sampling it in about 2 weeks!

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