Cuvee de Tomme clone group project - Page 9

nealf · 01-07-2010, 07:20 PM

I am brewing up a base beer right now. I had to change a few things to go with what I have one hand. I will be pitching a bug blend by the aforementioned Al B; he said this blend would be a good one for a CdT, so I'm going for it. No oak barrel, so I will be going with oak chips soaked in something.

Oldsock · 01-11-2010, 01:13 PM

I just racked my second attempt at a Cuvee Tomme inspired beer onto the cherries. This time around the base beer I used was modeled after Struise Pannepot (a similar beer to the base Cuvee Tomme uses, but with the addition of some light spices cinnamon/coriander/orange/thyme). Hoping the sour cherries give it the acidic kick that my first attempt was missing. For bugs I used some slurry that was originally a mix of Roeselare and Red Poppy dregs, so there are some Lost Abbey bugs in there at least (I also added a few drops of Al's blend, but I'm saving most of it for another batch).

saq · 01-11-2010, 05:51 PM

Oldsock,
Glad to see someone else is coming along!

You going to be barrel aging at all? How much cherries/how much beer do you age on fruit? I've heard that if you don't do 1lbs/gal you don't get much of an effect.

De Struise Pannepot is a really good beer, I'd love to see your recipe for that sometime. You should stop by the Homebrewtalk Chat sometime, we've got a good bunch of regulars there a few of which have posted in this thread about being involved.

Oldsock · 01-11-2010, 06:45 PM

I'm just under 1 lb per gallon (2 lbs in 2.5 gallons). I've got 2 lbs of the same sour cherries sitting in 4 gallons of Flanders Red and it tastes like sour cherry juice, but for such a big beer i was happy to add a bit higher ratio.

No real barrel aging for me on this one, just heavy toast American cubes that had been sitting in Maker's Mark for a few months. I have some more cubes that have been sitting in bourbon since my last Cuvee Tomme batch (2006) which I may add in a few months if the bourbon character isn't there.

The Pannepot recipe will be going up on my blog tonight with more details/notes etc..., but here is a preview (might need a touch more dark malt to get the color right):

Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 16.75
Anticipated OG: 1.096
Anticipated SRM: 22.9
Anticipated IBU: 25.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 74 %
Wort Boil Time: 95 Minutes

Grain/Sugar
---------------
59.7% - 10.00 lbs. French Pilsener
11.9% - 2.00 lbs. German Pilsener
11.9% - 2.00 lbs. Belgian Pilsener
9.0% - 1.50 lbs. Dark Candi Sugar Syrup
3.0% - 0.50 lbs. Crystal 120L (Special B would probably be more accurate)
3.0% - 0.50 lbs. Flaked Corn
0.7% - 0.13 lbs. Carafa II
0.4% - 0.06 lbs. Belgian Chocolate Malt
0.4% - 0.06 lbs. KilnCoffee Malt

Hops
------
2.00 oz. Willamette (Pellet 4.40% AA) @ 45 min. (Bramling Cross in original)
0.50 oz. Czech Saaz (Pellet 3.10% AA) @ 15 min. (Hallertau MF in original)

Extras
--------
0.25 tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 10 min.
1.00 Whirlfloc Fining @ 10 min.
3.00 gm Coriander Seed @ 2 min.
5.00 gm Fresh Orange Zest@ 2 min.
1.00 gm Cinnamon @ 2 min.
1.00 gm Thyme @ 2 min.

Yeast
-----
WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity (T-58 in original)

Mash Schedule
-------------
Sacch Rest 80 min @ 155

Fermentation
-------------
(From the brewer)
1st fermentation is temperature controlled at 75° F, 4 to 5 days max open
2nd fermentation is temperature controlled at +- 62° F, 2 weeks
lagering : 6 weeks
warm room : 1 week
cold ripening : 6 weeks

Oldsock · 01-12-2010, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldsock

The Pannepot recipe will be going up on my blog tonight with more details/notes etc...

http://madfermentationist.blogspot.com/2010/01/pannepot-clone-cuvee-tomme-again.html

saq · 01-12-2010, 09:12 PM

Saw that, looks interesting! I've been thinking about pecans in my CdT for a little twist.

saq · 01-19-2010, 06:29 AM

I did my first real checkup on my CdT thats been in barrels just a few days shy of 3 months, and after 2 weeks of having the cherry concentrate added.
Gravity is at 1.012 which is more or less where it left the conical at, but I added a good third of a quart of cherry juice so there has been some fermentation. The bugs looked like they were just barely starting to spot on the top like they were thinking of a pellicle.

After getting enough for a gravity sample I poured a bit of my topup beer in, which is a about a half gallon of unfermented The Pious combined with some cherry extract and hit with bugs cultured from a Cuvee De Tomme bottle which had done a fair bit of fermenting.

First off, the color and clarity of this beer is absolutely stunning. It is like a brilliant dark ruby with perfect clarity. You can kinda make it out in this picture, the iPhone takes pretty poor low light pictures.

Then I poured it into a small tasting tulip to get an idea of the aromas and flavors.

WOW. WOW WOW!

Ahem, now that is out of the way let me get into describing this in more detail.

In the nose the Belgian and Brett esters are the dominant character, with a little bit of oak and cherry coming in at low levels. There is the faintest hint of acetic.
The typical Westmalle quad character of banana and cocoa are fading and right now there is a pretty awesome balance going on.

On the palate flavors explode into a dazzling teaser of what is to come. Some of the quad character remains, but the oak and come out and play a more dominant role here. A little bit of funk and acetic/lactic come in and tantalize the palate, but only slightly. There is a little bourbon in the finish which then switches back to oaky.

I've enjoyed sipping and savoring this amazing unfinished sample of beer more than most other beers I've ever had. If I didn't know how this beer could get a lot better I would keg it and drink myself stupid. This beer right now is really REALLY good. This is very much a young, not very sour version of Cuvee De Tomme.

I think some time and care, along with maybe a touch more cherry down the road, will get this beer right where I want it.

I really need to get another barrel...

Gremlyn · 01-19-2010, 06:33 AM

Sounds and looks delicious.

**Bsquared** · 01-19-2010, 05:26 PM

Wow Saq thats looking good! I have made some progress, but now that I have the my new system up on line that can handle brewing 12 gallon Quad batches the barrel will be easier to fill.

I kegged up the first 10 gallons yesterday to sit till the barrel is ready to be filled. I was able to keep the hot alcohols to a minimum by keeping to a strict Temperature control regiment. I started fermentation at 64º and raised the temp 1º a day till I got to 76º and held it there for three weeks. I got it down to 1.014, so it is a little on the dry side.

I brewed up the second batch Sunday and mashed at 160º to try to get some more unfrementable sugars in to the mix. This time I removed the raisins from the boil so I was able to get 12.5 gallons out of the kettle this time. And that is fermenting right now. I plan on top cropping from these batches and brewing more over the next three to four weekends. I plan on pitching one 6.5 gallon batch with a mix of WLP0645 (Belgian sour blend) and the 530 I have running to get the bugs going before they go in the barrel.

Now that I have this figured out, If any one want to contribute to the barrel in SD and learn how to work with a barrel, just let me know. I have room for 33 more gallons.

**Saccharomyces** · 01-19-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldsock

http://madfermentationist.blogspot.com/2010/01/pannepot-clone-cuvee-tomme-again.html

I found one problem with your clone...

... you didn't make enough!!

This beer is so good, I have 10 gallons in the pipeline now, and I plan on putting another 5 gallons in the barrel every 2-3 months until I have 20 gallons of it. Between this beer and my ongoing Flanders Red pipeline (10 gallons every 3-4 months) I should have a pretty good supply of sours.

I would like your input on the cherries, since you have used them before. 2# of cherries to 2.5 gallons works out to about 40# in a 53 gallon barrel. One pound of concentrate seems to equal about 4# of cherries, so that would be 4-5 quarts of cherry concentrate in 53 gallons. I was planning on using 7 quarts of cherry concentrate in the 53 gallon barrel. Do you think that is going to be too much? I suppose I can always start with 4 quarts and then add one quart every week or so and keep tasting so I don't overdo it.