I made a pretty tasty clone of this a few years back (recipe is on my blog). It never got as much sourness as the original, but that may be because I used sweet cherries instead of sour. About to give it another try with some sour cherries I bough/froze a few months back. I don’t think the base recipe details are all that important, but some chocolate malt will add to the character.
It is certainly possible to get a big beer to sour with the right bugs. We are currently sitting on a 55 gallon bourbon barrel of ~10% abv wee heavy that went sour through no effort on our part… the good news is that it tastes fantastic (probably better than it would have without the funk).
__________________
Check out The Mad Fermentationist for my adventures in fermentation (cheese, bread, ginger beer plant, and of course plenty of funky beer).
Oldsock glad to see you signing in on this, your vast experience in sour/funky beers is whats inspired some of my funky efforts
I did check out your post about the sour cherry bourbon quad and how it didn't get that sour. That was a while ago, have you had a chance to try the real CdT yet? It is among the most sour beers I've ever had, wish I could get an extra bottle and a good digital pH meter so we can get an idea of our target pH.
If you want it really sour there's no reason to undergo a malolactic fermentation, as lactic acid is much less sour and sharp than malic acid. Malic acid is the main acid in apple juice, and whenever I do a malolactic fermentation in my ciders (sometimes on accident) it leaves some strange tastes. Heck, with the malic acid in there, you probably don't need any acerobacteria, one less bug step to worry about.
__________________ Primary:Russian River Redemption clone, Kelly's Melomel, Graham's English Cider 22-23 Clearing:Apple Wine Aging:Public House Dry Stout, Procrastination Porter, Mr. Brown Ale, Westvleteren 12 Clone, Mead, Duvel Clone, Graham's English Cider 6-21, Belgian Draak Strong Ale, Fig Melomel, Acerglyn, Restorative Tonic Metheglyn
So what is the specific recipe we will be brewing? It looks like so far the below is close to what has been discussed. As soon as it is finalized I will start getting the ingredients bought and ready. I am stoked!!!
Pilsener 66%
Wheat 6%
Munich 6%
Aromatic 6%
Caramunich 6%
Special B 2%
Chocolate 2%
Sugar 3%
Raisins 3%
Mash: 40 minutes at 145° then 30 minutes at 162°
Boil: 2 hours
Bittering hop addition 25 IBUs Challenger
Finishing hop addition .5oz per 5 gallons in the last 2 minutes of the boil with Styrian Goldings
OG 1.087
Primary: White Labs 530 at 63f for 2 weeks.
Transfer to a keg for transport and addition to the barrel.
__________________ Jerry Pritchett
KopyKat Brewery
I had a bottle of the 2008 version and a sample of the 2009, it thought both were sour, but I didn’t find either of them to be that sour. Each batch certainly had a bit more tartness than mine, but not that much more so. Might just be my pallet or the samples I tried.
Beatification Batch #2 from Russian River was the sourest beer I have tasted, it was like taking a sip of grapefruit juice when you are expecting milk.
__________________
Check out The Mad Fermentationist for my adventures in fermentation (cheese, bread, ginger beer plant, and of course plenty of funky beer).
If you want it really sour there's no reason to undergo a malolactic fermentation, as lactic acid is much less sour and sharp than malic acid. Malic acid is the main acid in apple juice, and whenever I do a malolactic fermentation in my ciders (sometimes on accident) it leaves some strange tastes. Heck, with the malic acid in there, you probably don't need any acerobacteria, one less bug step to worry about.
I agree, my fear is that it will undergo spontaneous ML fermentation anyway from the barrel, in the bottles... but there isn't going to be as much malic acid as say, red wine, since we only will be using 2 gallons of juice concentrate in the barrel. So if we forego the ML fermentation I will recommend Belgian bottles with corks and wires or bottling in Grolsch-type bottles that can go up to 4 volumes without bursting.
So what is the specific recipe we will be brewing?
Pilsener 66%
Wheat 6%
Munich 6%
Aromatic 6%
Caramunich 6%
Special B 2%
Chocolate 2%
Sugar 3%
Raisins 3%
Mash: 40 minutes at 145° then 30 minutes at 162°
Boil: 2 hours
Bittering hop addition 25 IBUs Challenger
Finishing hop addition .5oz per 5 gallons in the last 2 minutes of the boil with Styrian Goldings
OG 1.087
Primary: White Labs 530 at 63f for 2 weeks.
Transfer to a keg for transport and addition to the barrel.
Looks good to me....
For those who want to forego the step mash, 157-159*F seems like a good target range so it doesn't attenuate too much in the primary fermentation.
Raisins are chopped up and boiled in some of the first runnings before adding to the kettle.
White Labs 655 or Wyeast 3278 Lambic blend goes into the secondary 1 vial per 5-6 gallons, and cherry concentrate added after 3-4 months to give the bugs a chance to work on the wort before giving the Brett a fresh feast. Adding the concentrate with the bugs is an option as well and will likely result in a less sour beer.
I'm planning on adding enough tart cherry concentrate to get to 1.094-1.095 equiv. OG which should be 2 gallons in a big barrel by my calculations. For a 5 gallon batch that would be about 24 fluid oz. in the barrel/carboy if I did the math right (the cherry concentrate is 70* Brix, 1.360 SG).
I had a bottle of the 2008 version and a sample of the 2009, it thought both were sour, but I didn’t find either of them to be that sour. Each batch certainly had a bit more tartness than mine, but not that much more so. Might just be my pallet or the samples I tried.
Beatification Batch #2 from Russian River was the sourest beer I have tasted, it was like taking a sip of grapefruit juice when you are expecting milk.
CdT is quite sour, not as sour as Beatification. I've had Beatification Batch 1 PH1 (the La Folie barrel!) and Beatification Batch 2. I'm wondering what a good strategy for getting enough sourness in the beer is going to be.
So far I'm thinking of
Primary in conical with 530 yeast to get it fermentd.
After 10 days when it's done (it really only takes 7 at 82f) I'll transfer it into the cleaned barrel.
Top up the barrel (I think I'll be about .15g short) with some of the cherry extract and throw in some Brett C and Brett B and hell Brett L to and let them go to town.
Get a second mini batch (1g? 1.5g?) fermented out and into a 3G better bottle, pitch my funky bunch (lacto, pedio, brett) and dilute it down with cherry extract. Top up the barrel with this as needed.
So what are we looking at with these corn whiskey barrels? Should I be doing a 8 gallon batch to fill the barrel and reserve the rest to top off? I'm not sure I want to blend a second separate batch because of the unpredictability of the bugs.
So what are we looking at with these corn whiskey barrels? Should I be doing a 8 gallon batch to fill the barrel and reserve the rest to top off? I'm not sure I want to blend a second separate batch because of the unpredictability of the bugs.
I'm planning 7.5 for the 5 gallon barrel, these barrels vary but are ~5.25 gal.
.jpg-1311185420.jpg)
Linear Mode
